[Quixote]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

A bigger concern is whether THEY want to watch that, especially in their mother or father.

I've seen too much of that selfishness, where the kids and spouse are dumped and publicly humiliated by a parent who decides their new-found sexuality and publicly displayed desires come first, gay pride comes second, and the kids are lucky if they're a distant 4th or 5th place in that parent's life.

Given a divorce rate exceeding 50 percent, if you remove "new-found sexuality" and "gay pride" in the quote above, I can safely say that many (most? all?) of us have seen this in numbers far greater than the GLBT population. Oh, but they're hetero, so perhaps in the eyes of some, it doesn't figure into this discussion....

Originally Posted by angiefox10

I'll let Zach Wahls answer that concern for me... I think he can do a better job than I can.

Zach Wahls Speaks About Family - YouTube

Thank you, angiefox10, for finding and posting this video. It helps me better understand the feelings of a child of, in this instance, lesbian parents. If only all of our children were as "together" as this young man! A friend once suggested to me the need to create a support group in TV, given the large number she had come across, of mothers and fathers who are alienated from their adult children. Zach Wahls and his mothers might be a positive role model for families like this.

Originally Posted by rayschic

Very hard question to answer. Here's a link to a study done in 2011 by LGBT.
Think the numbers would actually be higher based upon the fact that some have not come out.

LGBT demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting to note that Florida is the state with the second largest number and percentage of population of gays, lesbians, and bisexuals. I had no idea!

Originally Posted by janieb

Since the Bible has been quoted on this, I thought I would share this, I loved it when I first read it

Why Can't I Own a Canadian?

As a Canadian, I strongly object to this suggestion even being voiced, let alone considered!!!

[angiefox10]

This post just happen to pop up on my FB page this evening... From a gay young man... Very insightful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaOIIwmVbzw

[angiefox10]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JsRx2lois

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JsRx2lois

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=CbmbdWK6338

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Where will all this openmindedness lead us in the future? What if three people love each other and are committed to each other, would you be against the 3 of them getting married to each other? What about a marriage between one man and 15 women?

How about 2 sisters, brothers, sister and brother, father and daughter, mother and son or friends who want to get married so as to save on taxes or get survivors benefits? Anything goes?

I hear ya, but that is a stretch to exaggerated and is just not worthy of considering. All or nothing theory should not apply to DOMA.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Like many who post here, Bille always has a fairness about him and a kindness too and is entitled to his opinions and he expresses them VERY well.

WEll, if you say it is so, I was obviously mistaken. Sorry for the mistake billie and the indirect ruler slap to my knuckles from grace heard very clearly. I think she must have been teacher in a past life. LOL

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Kumbaya is an aside. The decisions concerning this issue has nothing to do with prejudice, phobics ,judgments. Proponents will accuse those opposed as being homophobic and to that charge I say you just lost your argument because you have no argument.

It has to do with the sociological, well being of our nation. However if you review all of the posts those opposed speak to the sociological implications while proponents well its all kumbaya
It may make some feel well "swell" but Justice Kennedy just opened up Pandora's box.

I do see your point and I have concerns about what any change in law or public policy will lead to. With that concern in mind, I strongly feel that this decision by the court was just and should have been handled long ago. Too many voice their opinion that it is all about a sexual perversion. That assumption is terribly wrong. Love and sex are two different words with two different meanings.

Again, Rubicon's point is correct and should not be passed over lightly. I don't see or anticipate any disruption to our way of life based on DOMA, but without in dept. discussion we cannot be certain.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

AH yes the pounding on of the departed equine animal...it is not the first time on this forum...but this thread will continue for page after page after page until we treat each other so horribly that the moderators will close it.

Gay people are born gay and heterosexual people are born heterosexual. That is how it is. Now the law of the land will equally deal with the relationships of all. I hope that everyone will find someone like my dear sweetie. He has been a source of joy and comfort for these 51 years. Not everyone is so fortunate and a good marriage is worth all of the treasures of the earth.

But the above realities should not cause people to look down on others values that are held dear. We won't all ever agree completely on anything. We have all lived long lives and have had varied experiences. We cannot foist our beliefs and values onto others and being sarcastic and full of hate about a persons beliefs is not helpful or kind or will not change anyone's mind.

GG: I have a different take on this. Admin was kind enough to allow this thread to continue because even they now are tired of the multiple dog poop threads

[allus70]

Back in the early 80's, I was working on electrical systems on an occupied floor of NYU hospital in NYC. It was at the very beginning of the AIDs epidemic, and the gay community here was being utterly ravished by this strange and deadly disease. Basically, there was nothing to do at the time except to make the patients as pain free and comfortable as possible while waiting for the inevitable end.

I remember all these young men lying, unmoving, staring at the ceiling, many covered with lesions caused by an accompanying malady, Kaposi's sarcoma. I also remember their partners, coming day after day, cleaning, feeding, hugging and singing to them, doing anything and everything they could to comfort them.

Thinking back, it occurred to me years later, why is it that a couple can get drunk in Las Vegas, married and separated 24 hours later and the state will view that as a lawful union while these people, who are in long term committed, loving relationships and happen to be gay, were denied that same right of recognition? How did that make things better?

[angiefox10]

Originally Posted by Quixote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=CbmbdWK6338

Thank you for posting.

I'm not one who totally agrees with the thought process that on on e is going to change their minds. As you can see if you watch the video, this mother changed her mind on this subject. We don't know what makes people see things differently but people do change the way they think. I do. If you can show me why I should be thinking another way, I will think about it and change.

For those who have been raised to believe being gay isn't "natural" or the bible tells them it's wrong. I would ask first to remember that the people who raised you could have been wrong. Yep, we are taught things throughout generations as facts that may not be facts. I would also like to remind you that if you are going to follow one bible ruling, you should then follow the rest and as I pointed out in an earlier thread, no one wants to do that. I would also remind you (while I'm in a reminding mood) the bible says the earth is only 6000 years old and that it's flat. I think we all know that's not true.

Well.... I'm off to the market. Everyone have a wonderful day!

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JsRx2lois

Same old misguided bla bla bla. A sincere speech; however, his references are based on his personal beliefs of facts that are at the very least, based more on superstition than on Truth. Just because someone wrote down a story thousands of years ago does not make it fact and certainly not the word of god. Many fables came to the old story tellers in there nightly dreams.

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by allus70

Back in the early 80's, I was working on electrical systems on an occupied floor of NYU hospital in NYC. It was at the very beginning of the AIDs epidemic, and the gay community here was being utterly ravished by this strange and deadly disease. Basically, there was nothing to do at the time except to make the patients as pain free and comfortable as possible while waiting for the inevitable end.

I remember all these young men lying, unmoving, staring at the ceiling, many covered with lesions caused by an accompanying malady, Kaposi's sarcoma. I also remember their partners, coming day after day, cleaning, feeding, hugging and singing to them, doing anything and everything they could to comfort them.

Thinking back, it occurred to me years later, why is it that a couple can get drunk in Las Vegas, married and separated 24 hours later and the state will view that as a lawful union while these people, who are in long term committed, loving relationships and happen to be gay, were denied that same right of recognition? How did that make things better?

So true...think Britney Spears and her Las Vegas marriage in 2004 to a childhood friend which was annulled 55 hours later, or Kim Kardashian and Kris Humphries who had an elaborate $10 million ($ amount is an estimate) televised wedding, and that marriage lasted all of 72 days.

[angiefox10]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

Same old misguided bla bla bla. A sincere speech; however, his references are based on his personal beliefs of facts that are at the very least, based more on superstition than on Truth. Just because someone wrote down a story thousands of years ago does not make it fact and certainly not the word of god. Many fables came to the old story tellers in there nightly dreams.

You didn't watch the whole speech. Please go back and watch it. The whole speech. You might be surprised

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

You didn't watch the whole speech. Please go back and watch it. The whole speech. You might be surprised

OK I will

I did and now I must edit.

I watched the first half and was hearing the same old prejudices I have heard all my life. Thank you so much for sending me back. A different way of opening people's ears, and thanks to you, mine received the whole message.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

Thank you for posting.

I'm not one who totally agrees with the thought process that on on e is going to change their minds. As you can see if you watch the video, this mother changed her mind on this subject. We don't know what makes people see things differently but people do change the way they think. I do. If you can show me why I should be thinking another way, I will think about it and change.

For those who have been raised to believe being gay isn't "natural" or the bible tells them it's wrong. I would ask first to remember that the people who raised you could have been wrong. Yep, we are taught things throughout generations as facts that may not be facts. I would also like to remind you that if you are going to follow one bible ruling, you should then follow the rest and as I pointed out in an earlier thread, no one wants to do that. I would also remind you (while I'm in a reminding mood) the bible says the earth is only 6000 years old and that it's flat. I think we all know that's not true.

Well.... I'm off to the market. Everyone have a wonderful day!

angelfox10: Certainly what you say has some validity but given the recalcitrant nature of young people I would say that despite religious belief or parental views most people form their own opinions.

I was reared strict catholic and was fortunate to have good hearted open and honest parents. Despite all of that at 17 I bolted out of the house to go my own way. I shredded everything I was raised to believe and vowed to start from the beginning. As to race I remained the same that as individuals ought to judged. so bad actors irrespective of what race or ethnicity are bad actors. As to the nature of this topic I hold no malice embrace and would defend and come to the defense of anyone who would take unfair advantage. This also has never changed even as a boy I admonition my friends when the would make fun of the kid that stuttered, etc.

What I am saying is that in most situations we eventually form our own opinions based on our experiences. I have a love-hate relationship with the church because I believe the fundamentals that formed its beginnings have been harmed by bad actors with political agendas. In my view the human race needs God or at least a higher power. Every society that moved away from that concept perished because secularism eventually creates people who only think of themselves.

In summary, I do not base my position on God or my parents opinion but on my view concerning this topic and only to the sociological aspects. For a preview of what might be just look at earlier societies and the effect of lifestyles on their great nations.

Personal Best Regards:

Rubicon