[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

*sigh* Most people don't realize how many people out there are gay.... Many of those gays have just not come out of the closet for fear of not being accepted. For the people who have come out... Those people have friends and family who love and support them very much!

I believe the "majority" are those of us who love and support our gay friends and relatives.

And please.... If you are straight... please don't shove it down my children or grand children's throat as if it is the only way to be! I don't want them to grow up believing there is something wrong with being gay. You see... or maybe you don't... I want my friends and family to be happy! I WANT my children and grandchildren to grow up watching people kiss and hold hands. All people... same sex, opposite sex and interracial..

What a wonderful world it would be....

Well stated Angie.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

And you have the free will to believe that or not, too.

And regardless of our personal belief, none of us have the moral, ethical nor judicial right to discriminate against our fellow man.

[rubicon]

Perhaps I am incorrect but here are some of my observations

It seems some posters are not reading/digesting what other people have written

As to the genesis of homosexuality it would seem logical that it is genetic in nature although it is conceivable that it is learned if one was subjected to abuse early on and repeatedly ergo the abused becoming the abuser

Hence I question the wisdom of invoking God/Bible but do believe that we should look at nature or in this case natural selection. It would seem logical that natural selection would fall on the side of procreation in order to preserve the species. Let's suppose otherwise and consider for a moment that in the beginning natural selection created a same sex attraction only. Viola the human race disappears. It is then logical to say nature errored

People continue with all of this kumbaya and while the warm and fuzzies are admirable they do not address the real issues. In other words its not malice toward people. They should have equal protection and they should have the right to form their loving relationships and to argue otherwise places one at a disadvantage.

In my view the issues to be considered are these basic two:

The sociological affect to our society

The fact that this decision was made by one deciding vote on the Supreme Court when it should have been made by the people state by state.
Look what happen when Roe v Wade was made law by the (Court) Federalism. The abortion issue continues to divide this nation to this day. I believe if the decision had been made by the people it would have been behind us.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Perhaps I am incorrect but here are some of my observations

It seems some posters are not reading/digesting what other people have written

As to the genesis of homosexuality it would seem logical that it is genetic in nature although it is conceivable that it is learned if one was subjected to abuse early on and repeatedly ergo the abused becoming the abuser

Hence I question the wisdom of invoking God/Bible but do believe that we should look at nature or in this case natural selection. It would seem logical that natural selection would fall on the side of procreation in order to preserve the species. Let's suppose otherwise and consider for a moment that in the beginning natural selection created a same sex attraction only. Viola the human race disappears. It is then logical to say nature errored

People continue with all of this kumbaya and while the warm and fuzzies are admirable they do not address the real issues. In other words its not malice toward people. They should have equal protection and they should have the right to form their loving relationships and to argue otherwise places one at a disadvantage.

In my view the issues to be considered are these basic two:

The sociological affect to our society

The fact that this decision was made by one deciding vote on the Supreme Court when it should have been made by the people state by state.
Look what happen when Roe v Wade was made law by the (Court) Federalism. The abortion issue continues to divide this nation to this day. I believe if the decision had been made by the people it would have been behind us.

Permitting same-sex marriage will be decided by the people state by state. Only the 13 states and DC residents will benefit from the abolishing of the Defense of Marriage Act. All other state residents, including Florida, will not receive these federal benefits.

[angiefox10]

So... a bunch of people write a book saying two people were "created" about 6000 years ago.... give or take a few years... But we know that's not true.... We also know Adam and Eve.... if there were an Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatom..._modern_humans

Bringing out the bible to prove your point is a hard sell when we know the earth has been around for longer than 6000 years and people have been here for at least 200,000.

You can't just pull out the bible verses and insist we live by them unless you want to pull out ALL the verses and I don't think anyone wants to live by ALL the verses.... They are very barbaric. (see my previous post)

See... this is why I don't like the Bible... It is exactly what promotes the kind of thinking that divides us.

So....if you didn't have the Bible to tell you "it was wrong" would you still feel the same?

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

So... a bunch of people write a book saying two people were "created" about 6000 years ago.... give or take a few years... But we know that's not true.... We also know Adam and Eve.... if there were an Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatom..._modern_humans

Bringing out the bible to prove your point is a hard sell when we know the earth has been around for longer than 6000 years and people have been here for at least 200,000.

You can't just pull out the bible verses and insist we live by them unless you want to pull out ALL the verses and I don't think anyone wants to live by ALL the verses.... They are very barbaric. (see my previous post)

See... this is why I don't like the Bible... It is exactly what promotes the kind of thinking that divides us.

So....if you didn't have the Bible to tell you "it was wrong" would you still feel the same?

Do you really expect a thoughtful, cogent, sensible, scientific response to a post like this? If you do, there's a bridge in Brooklyn that I would like you to consider buying.... And if you have any more Bible verses like your previous post, please post them, as they are both fascinating and revealing!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

So... a bunch of people write a book saying two people were "created" about 6000 years ago.... give or take a few years... But we know that's not true.... We also know Adam and Eve.... if there were an Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatom..._modern_humans

Bringing out the bible to prove your point is a hard sell when we know the earth has been around for longer than 6000 years and people have been here for at least 200,000.

You can't just pull out the bible verses and insist we live by them unless you want to pull out ALL the verses and I don't think anyone wants to live by ALL the verses.... They are very barbaric. (see my previous post)

See... this is why I don't like the Bible... It is exactly what promotes the kind of thinking that divides us.

So....if you didn't have the Bible to tell you "it was wrong" would you still feel the same?

You know. No one is gonna change anyone's minds about this. Sometimes issues resolve themselves just in plain living. The Bible and the Torah and the tenets of our religious teachings are very dear to many of us. The traditions of hearing them read and privately thinking about the origins are different to all of us. Some literally interpret these books and some do not, but they are still sacred traditions to most of us.

Many have studied sacred scripture and can tell us with clarity the mindset of the writers of that particular time and many will argue that if it says Moses stood on that mount, then that is where he sat his feet.

I, like Tevye, like my "Traditions" and would not argue them with people who deem themselves to be scholars. I would not take on any traditional Jewish friends and tell them that keeping Kosher was horse manure. It just isn't kind and I doubt it would change their minds and I would soon have fewer friends.

Sometimes, least said, soonest mended. Gay people are just people and heterosexual people are just people and some are nicer than others.

[angiefox10]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

You know. No one is gonna change anyone's minds about this. Sometimes issues resolve themselves just in plain living. The Bible and the Torah and the tenets of our religious teachings are very dear to many of us. The traditions of hearing them read and privately thinking about the origins are different to all of us. Some literally interpret these books and some do not, but they are still sacred traditions to most of us.

Many have studied sacred scripture and can tell us with clarity the mindset of the writers of that particular time and many will argue that if it says Moses stood on that mount, then that is where he sat his feet.

I, like Tevye, like my "Traditions" and would not argue them with people who deem themselves to be scholars. I would not take on any traditional Jewish friends and tell them that keeping Kosher was horse manure. It just isn't kind and I doubt it would change their minds and I would soon have fewer friends.

Sometimes, least said, soonest mended. Gay people are just people and heterosexual people are just people and some are nicer than others.

What kind of friends would I have if they didn't like me because I pointed out the earth was round when they believed it was flat? Is that really the kind of friend I want? I am looking for friends who accept ALL people and all beliefs... including mine. I don't want quantity of friends... I want quality.

You are correct... "I" won't change anyone's mind on this... but someone will read it, and start googleing it as I did, maybe see something.... my mind was changed when someone pointed these things to me. So.... Yes... someone's mind can be changed. Someone who wants to know the truth. If someone shows me something different and can prove it to be so.... I will change again. I will continue to keep my mind open and continue to post for the others who keep their minds open.


The Emperor is naked!

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

What kind of friends would I have if they didn't like me because I pointed out the earth was round when they believed it was flat? Is that really the kind of friend I want? I am looking for friends who accept ALL people and all beliefs... including mine. I don't want quantity of friends... I want quality.

You are correct... "I" won't change anyone's mind on this... but someone will read it, and start googleing it as I did, maybe see something.... my mind was changed when someone pointed these things to me. So.... Yes... someone's mind can be changed. Someone who wants to know the truth. If someone shows me something different and can prove it to be so.... I will change again. I will continue to keep my mind open and continue to post for the others who keep their minds open.


The Emperor is naked!

I am sure that if you just smile when someone says something that you are convinced is wrong, yes you will not lose a friend but you will leave them in the dark ages. Angie, your post above should open eyes to the point that if you say nothing at all, you are close to lying to your friends. I also would not want to be surrounded by people posing as my friend while hiding behind the fake smile. We should all put on our adult face and stand up for what you believe in. Don't be mean, but be honest with your friends and yourself and tell them if you disagree.

Again, great post Angie

[Taltarzac725]

The Sermon on the Mount is one of the most beautiful things in all literature-- world literature. It also seems to spread a message of treating people like your yourself would like to be treated. I sincerely belief that if Jesus were walking this earth in 2013 like he did around 33 he would extend human rights to gays/lesbians.

Many religions around the world have ideas/ideals like the Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...-7&version=NIV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The Sermon on the Mount is one of the most beautiful things in all literature-- world literature. It also seems to spread a message of treating people like your yourself would like to be treated. I sincerely belief that if Jesus were walking this earth in 2013 like he did around 33 he would extend human rights to gays/lesbians.

Many religions around the world have ideas/ideals like the Sermon on the Mount.

100% Correct. Read and follow the words From that sermon and you would find most so called Christians today falling very short of the will of the God they claim to worship.

[rayschic]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

So... a bunch of people write a book saying two people were "created" about 6000 years ago.... give or take a few years... But we know that's not true.... We also know Adam and Eve.... if there were an Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatom..._modern_humans

Bringing out the bible to prove your point is a hard sell when we know the earth has been around for longer than 6000 years and people have been here for at least 200,000.

You can't just pull out the bible verses and insist we live by them unless you want to pull out ALL the verses and I don't think anyone wants to live by ALL the verses.... They are very barbaric. (see my previous post)

See... this is why I don't like the Bible... It is exactly what promotes the kind of thinking that divides us.

So....if you didn't have the Bible to tell you "it was wrong" would you still feel the same?

Well said. I sincerely hope that some people will research your posts and change their minds about the bible.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by rayschic

Well said. I sincerely hope that some people will research your posts and change their minds about the bible.

agree. It would put so many back on the fast track the the heaven they are searching for while making America closer to respecting all people.

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by rayschic

Well said. I sincerely hope that some people will research your posts and change their minds about the bible.

It won't happen.

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by tucson

When-In the beginning, Who- God, created man and woman to be in His (God's) image :-) Where- Garden of Eden

How does that prove they were heterosexual. Are you saying they were born that way? Well wait I guess they were not really born.