[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

agree. It would put so many back on the fast track the the heaven they are searching for while making America closer to respecting all people.

Boy Howdy. Let's rethink some other stuff and leave the poor old Bible alone..

How about the constitution?

And adoption?

And the inequality of innate intelligence and motor coordination and health?

And heterosexual marriage?

And allowing people to care for our children who we would not allow to drive our car?

And having too much stuff?

And true love?

And the maternal bond?

And whether some dog breeds are smarter?

And people who are lazy and live off the government?

There are a LOT of unanswered questions that people don't want to take on because it pushes their beliefs in the wrong direction.

I am saying if we are causing pain to others for NO GOOD REASON...SHUT UP!

I can defriend myself real quick here. Having friends is NOT the issue.

Some people don't give a rip whose feelings they are treading on.

I am a Catholic who does NOT believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, but other people do.

Those other people have a right to their beliefs. We have NO right to try to change their views. If they are NOT harming anyone by word or deed than leave them alone. I think religion becomes real murky when it comes to bombing folks. Real wrong. But religion is an important part of most people's lives and the freedom to believe as we wish was one of the the main reason this country began.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Boy Howdy. Let's rethink some other stuff and leave the poor old bible alone..

How about the constitution?

And adoption?

And the inequality of innate intelligence and motor coordination and health?

And heterosexual marriage?

And allowing people to care for our children who we would not allow to drive our car?

And having too much stuff?

And true love?

And the maternal bond?

And whether some dog breeds are smarter?

And people who are lazy and live off the government?

There are a LOT of unanswered questions that people don't want to take on because it pushes their beliefs in the wrong direction.

I am saying if we are causing pain to others for NO GOOD REASON...SHUT UP!

I can defriend myself real quick here. Having friends is NOT the issue.

Some people don't give a rip whose feelings they are treading on.

Try to keep on topic. Yes we have other issues to discuss, but this one is about same sex marriage. This thread has a lot of interest, so please try to stay on the OP. The bible is the biggest obstacle for folks to get past, so it is just being asked to research where and how the bible was written.

[rayschic]

Originally Posted by Monkei

It won't happen.

I really think it might. I applaud angiefox for being bold enough to make the posts that she did. If even ONE person changed their mind about the bible, it would be worth it.
The bible is a book written and rewritten and rewritten again. It is NOT the word of God. It is the word of many different men.

[tucson]

everyone makes choices in what they believe, either you believe in what "man" says is or you believe what God says is true. I choose to believe what God says is true, ( and the Bible IS the Word of God) because God can NOT lie)

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by rayschic

I really think it might. I applaud angiefox for being bold enough to make the posts that she did. If even ONE person changed their mind about the bible, it would be worth it.
The bible is a book written and rewritten and rewritten again. It is NOT the word of God. It is the word of many different men.

Bingo.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by tucson

everyone makes choices in what they believe, either you believe in what "man" says is or you believe what God says is true. I choose to believe what God says is true, ( and the Bible IS the Word of God) because God can NOT lie)

I disagree as there is so much evidence even from biblical experts to prove that the bible is a collection of stories written over the years and then changed thru mans interpretation many more times to help reflect the needs of man

[redwitch]

Originally Posted by tucson

everyone makes choices in what they believe, either you believe in what "man" says is or you believe what God says is true. I choose to believe what God says is true, ( and the Bible IS the Word of God) because God can NOT lie)

The Bible is the word of God written and interpreted by man. Originally, it was oral history. Some laws of the time that made perfect sense then were added to the word of God. Ultimately, the words were written -- in Greek, not Hebrew, not Arabic, Greek! Those words have sense been translated into many languages. The original written texts were re-interpreted constantly. There have been many versions of the modern Bible. How can it possibly be the literal word of God? An interpretation of His word, yes, but not his words.

I don't honestly know if Jesus was the son of God, but I believe he was. Whether he was not, his teachings and beliefs are certainly worthy of trying to live by. I can think of no better example than Jesus and the credo of "what would Jesus do" is certainly a good rule of thumb.

If you truly believe Jesus would condemn someone because they were gay; that Jesus would deny them the right to love freely and openly with the same rights as any other American, that is your right. I choose to believe that Jesus would welcome anyone who tried to follow his rules and tenets into his Father's house and that includes all people regardless of race or sexual preference.

Follow the Golden Rule and you can't go wrong. So, if you want to be able to marry the person of your choice, let others have that same freedom -- whether you approve of that choice or not. If you want to live wherever you want, fight for the right of others to have that same choice. If you don't want to be called names because of the color of your skin, your religious choice, your choice of a lifemate, don't condemn those who are different. If we could all live by that simple rule, what a wonderful world it would be!

[rayschic]

Originally Posted by redwitch

The Bible is the word of God written and interpreted by man. Originally, it was oral history. Some laws of the time that made perfect sense then were added to the word of God. Ultimately, the words were written -- in Greek, not Hebrew, not Arabic, Greek! Those words have sense been translated into many languages. The original written texts were re-interpreted constantly. There have been many versions of the modern Bible. How can it possibly be the literal word of God? An interpretation of His word, yes, but not his words.

I don't honestly know if Jesus was the son of God, but I believe he was. Whether he was not, his teachings and beliefs are certainly worthy of trying to live by. I can think of no better example than Jesus and the credo of "what would Jesus do" is certainly a good rule of thumb.

If you truly believe Jesus would condemn someone because they were gay; that Jesus would deny them the right to love freely and openly with the same rights as any other American, that is your right. I choose to believe that Jesus would welcome anyone who tried to follow his rules and tenets into his Father's house and that includes all people regardless of race or sexual preference.

Follow the Golden Rule and you can't go wrong. So, if you want to be able to marry the person of your choice, let others have that same freedom -- whether you approve of that choice or not. If you want to live wherever you want, fight for the right of others to have that same choice. If you don't want to be called names because of the color of your skin, your religious choice, your choice of a lifemate, don't condemn those who are different. If we could all live by that simple rule, what a wonderful world it would be!

Well said.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by redwitch

The Bible is the word of God written and interpreted by man. Originally, it was oral history. Some laws of the time that made perfect sense then were added to the word of God. Ultimately, the words were written -- in Greek, not Hebrew, not Arabic, Greek! Those words have sense been translated into many languages. The original written texts were re-interpreted constantly. There have been many versions of the modern Bible. How can it possibly be the literal word of God? An interpretation of His word, yes, but not his words.

I don't honestly know if Jesus was the son of God, but I believe he was. Whether he was not, his teachings and beliefs are certainly worthy of trying to live by. I can think of no better example than Jesus and the credo of "what would Jesus do" is certainly a good rule of thumb.

If you truly believe Jesus would condemn someone because they were gay; that Jesus would deny them the right to love freely and openly with the same rights as any other American, that is your right. I choose to believe that Jesus would welcome anyone who tried to follow his rules and tenets into his Father's house and that includes all people regardless of race or sexual preference.

Follow the Golden Rule and you can't go wrong. So, if you want to be able to marry the person of your choice, let others have that same freedom -- whether you approve of that choice or not. If you want to live wherever you want, fight for the right of others to have that same choice. If you don't want to be called names because of the color of your skin, your religious choice, your choice of a lifemate, don't condemn those who are different. If we could all live by that simple rule, what a wonderful world it would be!

Well said. VERY well said. As usual. I love your dear liberal heart...and I know you love my old moderate heart.

[janmcn]

Each state will decide whether to allow same-sex marriage. So far 13 states plus DC have made the decision to allow it, some by court order and some by ballot initiative. The repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act by the Supreme Court will only apply to the states which allow same-sex marriages.

The plaintiff in this court case, 84 year-old Edie Windsor, a resident of NY will save over $360,000 in estate taxes because NY recognizes her marriage to her partner of 46 years. When her partner died, Edie received a bill from the IRS for $363,000.

If Edie lived across the river in NJ or here in Florida, she would have to pay that estate tax. This is just one example of the unfairness to same-sex couples that DOMA created.

This decision by the Supreme Court was based entirely on the law and not on any religious beliefs, which is why this country has a very strict separation of church and state.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Each state will decide whether to allow same-sex marriage. So far 13 states plus DC have made the decision to allow it, some by court order and some by ballot initiative. The repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act by the Supreme Court will only apply to the states which allow same-sex marriages.

The plaintiff in this court case, 84 year-old Edie Windsor, a resident of NY will save over $360,000 in estate taxes because NY recognizes her marriage to her partner of 46 years. When her partner died, Edie received a bill from the IRS for $363,000.

If Edie lived across the river in NJ or here in Florida, she would have to pay that estate tax. This is just one example of the unfairness to same-sex couples that DOMA created.

This decision by the Supreme Court was based entirely on the law and not on any religious beliefs, which is why this country has a very strict separation of church and state.

NOW that, Jan, is a very reasonable argument. And stated without rancor and clearly written.

Well done.

[Flyinglady]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Permitting same-sex marriage will be decided by the people state by state. Only the 13 states and DC residents will benefit from the abolishing of the Defense of Marriage Act. All other state residents, including Florida, will not receive these federal benefits.

I do not think you are correct in this statement. Once the marriage has been performed in one of the states allowing gay marriage, the federal benefits will follow them to any state they wish to reside in, only the state benefits will not apply.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Permitting same-sex marriage will be decided by the people state by state. Only the 13 states and DC residents will benefit from the abolishing of the Defense of Marriage Act. All other state residents, including Florida, will not receive these federal benefits.

janmcn: that is what Kennedy's decision just did and purposefully because he wants a federal decision ergo right back to ignoring we the people

[rubicon]

Whoa! Posters continue down the same paths God/bible arguments are going nowhere because it is a he says she says argument. What I well say is that the bible reflects customs, thoughts, positions down the ages and it is apparent that from the beginning the position on homosexuality has not changed.

Posters also continue with emotional position they have a right to marry equal protection----That is not an argument. I have said previously this is an issue of nature or natural selection in which natural selection from the beginning was procreation to perpetuate the species. Had natural selection been same sex the human race would have disappeared. It seem there are no takers to refute that position and to speak to the issue in a purely clinical manner. Why? And, so the response will be they have a right to----further deflecting any cogent conversation

So again what are the sociological consequences and why is it that such decisions are taken out of the hands of we the people? Again no takers

I may be dead wrong but I am waiting for a counterpoint

[gomoho]

Rubicon - to your "we the people" comment, I don't think that matters much anymore. It's more about "us - we want what we want and to hell with the rest of you".
However - I believe what the Supreme Court ruled was that prop 8 that defeated gay marriage was unconstitutional so it doesn't really matter what the people say - we can't vote to approve something they deem unconstitutional. Not saying it is right or wrong - it is the law of the land.