[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by MandoMan

24 square feet. 4’ x 6’. How much room do the growers provide now?

14 to 20 square feet

[Ponygirl]

Instead of focusing on the possible increased cost of pork why not applaud this ruling that sees the importance of humane housing for breeding sows. This is an effort to reduce horrific and continuous cruelty

Currently the sides of the enclosure are so close to her body that she can’t even turn around. This ruling increases the area where she lives for her entire life so she can turn around and easily lie down. Small ask. Perhaps the industry will recognize the importance of this modification if they want to sell pork in California

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs

Having been born and raised in Iowa, the pork capital of the world, I have never seen hogs kept in confined spaces, except when farrowing. And that was just to protect the piglets until they were weaned and able to fend for themselves. Otherwise they were kept in large pens with plenty of room to roam. I think this is just something dreamed up by the wacko California legislature whose members' closest proximity to hog farming was buying bacon at the grocery store.

[Rainger99]

The problem is that it sets a precedent and opens the door for the largest states to dictate the laws and regulations for consumers and businesses in the rest of America.

If California passed a law that no product could be sold in the state unless the out of state manufacturer paid $22 an hour to his employees, it would be chaos. Or if they banned cars from any manufacturer who didn’t manufacture at least 50% of their cars as electrical vehicles.

I don’t care what laws California passes for California residents but I object when they try to control the behavior of out of state people.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

The problem is that it sets a precedent and opens the door for the largest states to dictate the laws and regulations for consumers and businesses in the rest of America.

If California passed a law that no product could be sold in the state unless the out of state manufacturer paid $22 an hour to his employees, it would be chaos. Or if they banned cars from any manufacturer who didn’t manufacture at least 50% of their cars as electrical vehicles.

I don’t care what laws California passes for California residents but I object when they try to control the behavior of out of state people.

I think your post is very reasonsed and brings up very valid concerns. From the article:

"Gorsuch said the pork producers challenging the law were asking the justices to “fashion two new and more aggressive constitutional restrictions on the ability of States to regulate goods sold within their borders.” The justices declined.


During arguments in the case in October, liberal and conservative justices underscored the potential reach of the case. Some worried whether greenlighting the animal cruelty law would give state legislators a license to pass laws targeting practices they disapprove of, such as a law that says a product cannot be sold in the state if workers who made it are not vaccinated or are not in the country legally. They also worried about the reverse: How many state laws would be called into question if California's law were not permitted?"

I think this is a very complex issue, and since the California law was upheld, I think we will get a chance to see how things play out.

Maybe the pork producers just stop selling in California. Yes it is a very large state and that would hurt sales significantly. But when no one sells to California, maybe California rethinks their positions. I also think California has a huge burden to enforce the law. All a pork producer would need to do is set up 1 pen of required size. Then it seems like it would be up to california to prove that any package of pork was not from a pig whose mother was kept in that pen. Seems like a steep climb.

All that being said, I agree with your concerns on what new laws by one state that affects another can have. And I believe Californial is a liberal pig sty itself. But I do think keeping a pig in a pen where it cannot even turn around is cruel.

[jmaccallum]

Originally Posted by Hape2Bhr

Is bacon legal in California?

I don’t think so.

[hypart]

There is no constitutional right for you to sell pork in California. California has a right (just like any other state) to pass the laws they see fit for their state. If you don't want to comply, then you don't sell to California residents. Not that complicated.

As far as enforcement, California can simply observe through video cameras.

Again, if you don't like it, then don't do business with California.

It's a free country people.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

I think your post is very reasonsed and brings up very valid concerns. From the article:

"Gorsuch said the pork producers challenging the law were asking the justices to “fashion two new and more aggressive constitutional restrictions on the ability of States to regulate goods sold within their borders.” The justices declined.


During arguments in the case in October, liberal and conservative justices underscored the potential reach of the case. Some worried whether greenlighting the animal cruelty law would give state legislators a license to pass laws targeting practices they disapprove of, such as a law that says a product cannot be sold in the state if workers who made it are not vaccinated or are not in the country legally. They also worried about the reverse: How many state laws would be called into question if California's law were not permitted?"

I think this is a very complex issue, and since the California law was upheld, I think we will get a chance to see how things play out.

Maybe the pork producers just stop selling in California. Yes it is a very large state and that would hurt sales significantly. But when no one sells to California, maybe California rethinks their positions. I also think California has a huge burden to enforce the law. All a pork producer would need to do is set up 1 pen of required size. Then it seems like it would be up to california to prove that any package of pork was not from a pig whose mother was kept in that pen. Seems like a steep climb.

All that being said, I agree with your concerns on what new laws by one state that affects another can have. And I believe Californial is a liberal pig sty itself. But I do think keeping a pig in a pen where it cannot even turn around is cruel.

...so, another state can pass a law that pigs need to be confined in small cages?

[Bill1701]

This law was passed years ago and only takes effect now. Pork producers had plenty of time to adjust. Don't forget that swine flu came from Mexico. It developed on a pig farm that had moved from South Carolina because the owner didn't want to meet federal EPA requirements.

[dougjb]

While some posters here are readily criticizing California, it might be best to have a small bite of humble pie.

Before the Florida Constitution was revised, voters in the state by popular vote amended the Florida Constitution (not just a law..but part of our Constitution) to protect pregnant pigs! The amendment occured in the last 30 years or so!

Perhaps one should strongly consider the old adage that people in glass houses should not throw stones!

[Wondering]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs

Too bad for pork producers. I have no sympathy for an industry that hires child/under age workers and didn't protect their employees during the pandemic. The heart associations says you shouldn't be eating pork anyway - not healthy for your heart!

[Battlebasset]

I remembered reading about this in a WSJ editorial last year, so I went back to find it. From the article:

California voters in 2018 approved a ballot initiative that established minimum confinement standards for farm animals sold as meat in the state. The law effectively requires that adult female pigs be housed in large group pens even though nearly all hog farmers keep them in individual pens, in part to prevent disease from spreading.

And for those who think this won't affect the rest of the nation, I give you California's requirement for different gasoline blends that make refining less efficient, thus raising the price of gasoline for all of us.

If you want to read the entire WSJ article, here is the link. If you have a library card, at least in Sumter county, you have free access if you go through their website and register for online services:

California Tries to Regulate 50 States - WSJ

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Wondering

Too bad for pork producers. I have no sympathy for an industry that hires child/under age workers and didn't protect their employees during the pandemic. The heart associations says you shouldn't be eating pork anyway - not healthy for your heart!

So miss informed.
Child workers.............
Healthy...............lean pork is as part of any healthy diet.

R U a chicken farmer by chance.

[hypart]

Originally Posted by Caymus

...so, another state can pass a law that pigs need to be confined in small cages?

Yes.

Then the pork producer would have to make a decision to which state it would like to sell to.

We are 50 individual states. And there are conflicting laws between states often. Welcome to America.

[mikempp]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs

How do they raise them? In a stall they can never walk or lay down? That's etremly cruel, I'd pay more not to be crual.