[Vermilion Villager]

Originally Posted by Steve

Having been born and raised in Iowa, the pork capital of the world, I have never seen hogs kept in confined spaces, except when farrowing. And that was just to protect the piglets until they were weaned and able to fend for themselves. Otherwise they were kept in large pens with plenty of room to roam. I think this is just something dreamed up by the wacko California legislature whose members' closest proximity to hog farming was buying bacon at the grocery store.

Well… If what you're saying is correct Iowa should be in compliance with the standard and have nothing to worry about correct?

[dewilson58]

California will be passing a law which requires pigs to fly into the state rather than being transported by truck.

[Vermilion Villager]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

The problem is that it sets a precedent and opens the door for the largest states to dictate the laws and regulations for consumers and businesses in the rest of America.

If California passed a law that no product could be sold in the state unless the out of state manufacturer paid $22 an hour to his employees, it would be chaos. Or if they banned cars from any manufacturer who didn’t manufacture at least 50% of their cars as electrical vehicles.

I don’t care what laws California passes for California residents but I object when they try to control the behavior of out of state people.

States rights!!!!!

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by mikempp

How do they raise them? In a stall they can never walk or lay down? That's etremly cruel, I'd pay more not to be crual.

And you should have the right to make that choice while I choose otherwise.

The California law is making the choice for everyone in the state - no one can choose otherwise. But that's what the majority of the California voters in 2018 wanted.

The issue is that with the industry being the way it is, this California law *might* end up making the choice for everyone in the nation. I am sure *I* did not have a say in that 2018 California law.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

And you should have the right to make that choice while I choose otherwise.

The California law is making the choice for everyone in the state - no one can choose otherwise. But that's what the majority of the California voters in 2018 wanted.

The issue is that with the industry being the way it is, this California law *might* end up making the choice for everyone in the nation. I am sure *I* did not have a say in that 2018 California law.

The California law cannot make the choice for everyone. (Trust me, I am not a California defender at all.) Businesses who do business in CA may make a change to their entire production model in order to sell in CA, or they may change just the production line that sells to CA, or they may choose to not sell in CA. Producers have every right to do whatever they want and sell to you in FL. The CA law does not control that. How businesses choose to respond to the CA law may affect you (in FL), but CA does not bear the responsibility for that. The businesses do.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

California will be passing a law which requires pigs to fly into the state rather than being transported by truck.

And only if they fly with renewable energy and do not emit any gasses.

[jjombrello]

Another idiotic rule or law coming out of California. Lived there on tow occasions when things were still half-way sane, but how anyone could keep living there now is beyond me.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Steve

Having been born and raised in Iowa, the pork capital of the world, I have never seen hogs kept in confined spaces, except when farrowing. And that was just to protect the piglets until they were weaned and able to fend for themselves. Otherwise they were kept in large pens with plenty of room to roam. I think this is just something dreamed up by the wacko California legislature whose members' closest proximity to hog farming was buying bacon at the grocery store.

Thanks for posting. I had to look up the term farrowing (although I kind of guessed what it meant). When I did, it took me to a site with videos of birthing and piglets suckling after birth. I have to say the tight quarters, for the intent of keeping the piglets from being squashed did not look cruel. I wish I had seen these before I commented on the cruelty. I wonder if this was shown to the voters before hand, or if there reaction was based on ignorance like mine was.

Will giving them the 24 sq ft room as required actually result in the death of many piglets? After looking, it appears so to me.

[toeser]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

The US Supreme Court just upheld a California law which requires that any pork sold in California has to come from pigs whose mothers were raised with at least 24 square feet of space, with the ability to lie down and turn around - even if the pork comes from another state.

This will be a nightmare for the pork industry since the vast majority of pork farmers' practices do not conform to the California law. Either they won't be able to sell pork in California, or if they do comply with the law, pork prices should increase for the rest of the country. Stock up on bacon now!

Supreme Court rejects challenge to California pork law mandating more space for pigs

Normally, I disagree with about 90% of laws that California passes. However, I grew up on a farm and am in total agreement with the standards in this law. Current practices in the hog farming (and turkey farming) industry are absolutely cruel. Have a little empathy for these poor animals that feed you and don't accept cruelty just to save a buck.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

The California law cannot make the choice for everyone. (Trust me, I am not a California defender at all.) Businesses who do business in CA may make a change to their entire production model in order to sell in CA, or they may change just the production line that sells to CA, or they may choose to not sell in CA. Producers have every right to do whatever they want and sell to you in FL. The CA law does not control that. How businesses choose to respond to the CA law may affect you (in FL),

I believe that is what I wrote.

but CA does not bear the responsibility for that. The businesses do.

Ah yes, the businesses can choose to not do business in the largest state in the nation. Or, the businesses can choose to set up parallel sources and production lines for their products that will be shipped to California. Or, businesses can recognize that to stay in business they need to remain in the California market and the only way to do that is to change their sourcing which will affect all their products whether they are shipped to California or not. Really not much of a choice for the businesses.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I believe that is what I wrote.



Ah yes, the businesses can choose to not do business in the largest state in the nation. Or, the businesses can choose to set up parallel sources and production lines for their products that will be shipped to California. Or, businesses can recognize that to stay in business they need to remain in the California market and the only way to do that is to change their sourcing which will affect all their products whether they are shipped to California or not. Really not much of a choice for the businesses.

It is possible that I am splitting hairs, but I do think that miniscule difference matters. I was understanding you to say that CA voters were telling you what you can or cannot do, and you had no say in that. That may not have been what you were stating. But if it was, CA voters do have a right to say they do not what porks sold in their state under a certain set of conditions. If the businesses that sell in that state choose to apply those conditions everywhere else, CA cannot be blamed for that. Yes it is a side effect of their law, but they did not (directly) force the businesses to do anything any different for any other state. So, you not having a say in CA law does not make you a victim of CA law. It may make you "collateral damage" but I don't think a state should be prevented from implementing a law that only applies to goods and services sold in their state, because the businesses that operate in their state CHOOSE to apply the law for other states, and that bothers/affects the residents of the other states.

Bottom line is I agree that it may (probably will?) affect you. But that is not CA's concern.

You can read in my post before this that I think the law may be flawed for other reasons, but that is a different discussion.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by toeser

Normally, I disagree with about 90% of laws that California passes. However, I grew up on a farm and am in total agreement with the standards in this law. Current practices in the hog farming (and turkey farming) industry are absolutely cruel. Have a little empathy for these poor animals that feed you and don't accept cruelty just to save a buck.

Do the pigs "feel" pain from not being able to turn around? Are they as sentient as Porky Pig or Arnold Ziffel?

[Lindsyburnsy]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

Almost anything California passes I think is ridiculous. And I am not a huge animal person. But requiring a 4x6 pen for a pig where she can lay down does not seem extreme. If the industry does not provide that now, then shame on them, not shame on California for passing the law. That is one law that I would be willing to pay more for. Yes it is "just an animal," but cruelty is still cruelty.

I couldn't agree with you more! Animals should be treated humanely!

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Lindsyburnsy

I couldn't agree with you more! Animals should be treated humanely!

What is humane is very subjective and controversial. Ask PETA.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by Caymus

Do the pigs "feel" pain from not being able to turn around? Are they as sentient as Porky Pig or Arnold Ziffel?

Pigs are smart animals, comparable to dogs. Would a dog feel the pain? My dog certainly would.