[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Mickedamouse24

Stay out of other countries business and take care of our own!!!

Nice thought really ! Problem is, what is happening in the mideast NOW is going to impact this country and its citizens in time...count on it.

This is a small world and isolating ourselves will do more damage than good. The "bad guys" are getting stronger with this.

Also, hard for me to sit back and allow THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of people get killed, now by lethal gas and ignore it. It just does not seem to be what this country is about......sounds awful famaliar doesnt it...the gas killing..the ignoring of it ?

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Wasn't the full statement something like, "we don't take sides, but the use of chemical weapons would be a situation of a red line being crossed."

I for one am happy that we took sides against the Nazis in WWII.

I'm not saying that we should go into Syria, but I don't think that we can just make a blanket statement that we never take sides.

However any of us feel about this, I think that we will soon see American troops, leading UN forces, on the ground over there. I really don't see how the rest of the world can continue to sit back and do nothing about this.

Problem is that WE HAVE TAKEN SIDES....

"A deal reached in Congress to allow the United States to ship arms to Syrian rebels could spur more support from other nations, blunting the military gains of dictator Bashar Assad and preventing him from crushing the rebel movement.

Syrian rebels say the decision by U.S. lawmakers to go along with President Obama's plan announced weeks ago to arm their factions will give them an edge."

Deal done for U.S. to ship arms to Syria rebels

This is from a month ago, and we can see the reaction thus far....poison gas.

And yes, we had drawn a line and more to come....those who want to stay out of it.....I do also, but how does anything we say from here on in mean anything. THOUSANDS BEING KILLED over such a long period of time.

[Bucco]

Again to validate that we HAVE taken sides....

"In June, the Los Angeles Times reported that CIA operatives and American special operations units have been training Free Syrian Army soldiers with anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons since late 2012. "

Let us all pray that we know these rebels and that we are not being conned...

"Guerrilla fighters trained by the West began moving towards Damascus in mid-August, French newspaper Le Figaro reported on Thursday.

Le Figaro reported that this is the reason behind the Assad regime's alleged chemical weapons attack in Damascus on Wednesday morning, as UN inspectors were allowed into the country to investigate allegations of WMD use."

Report: Syrian rebel forces trained by West are moving towards Damascus | JPost | Israel News

[donb9006]

Originally Posted by PaPaLarry

Bucco, as you can see, this person is not going to answer you. Just wants to stir trouble. Your right on!!!

What is there to say? I think the Syria thing is just a pretext to war. Just as Saddams supposed using of chemical weapons on his people helped propel us into war with Iraq. How the Gulf of Tonkin lie got us into war in Vietnam. Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen getting us into WWII. The killing of a nobody Arch Duke kicked off WWI. The "southern aggression" (Lincoln had left union troops on Ft Sumter purposely to taunt the Confederates) used to "justify" the Civil War. I could go on and on... It's what they do.

My best advice? Turn off the TV and don't read/watch ANY "news". You'll be better "informed" without the propaganda.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by donb9006

What is there to say? I think the Syria thing is just a pretext to war. Just as Saddams supposed using of chemical weapons on his people helped propel us into war with Iraq. How the Gulf of Tonkin lie got us into war in Vietnam. Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen getting us into WWII. The killing of a nobody Arch Duke kicked off WWI. The "southern aggression" (Lincoln had left union troops on Ft Sumter purposely to taunt the Confederates) used to "justify" the Civil War. I could go on and on... It's what they do.

My best advice? Turn off the TV and don't read/watch ANY "news". You'll be better "informed" without the propaganda.

Your "knowledge" of history is noted.

I would be curious how you stay "informed" ?? No TV, maybe, but that plus no reading is a bit scary. Hoping TOTV is not your news source

Another historical pint to consider....most historians agree that the USA delay in entering WWII almost gave the world to the Nazi's..cost us a lot of lives as it extended that war for years.

This is not to say I support any kind of war, but in addition to our President drawing a line at killing by using chemicals, how does one allow the mass murders of women and children to continue with our tacit approval. You have a greater trust in the "leaders" of the Mid East.

As I said, I do not trust these people to do the "right thing" (whatever that is, it is NOT gassing innocent people), and I pray our POTUS does the right thing before it visits our shores.

[Bucco]

Just an update since Syria will not allow anyone to enter the area to check...


"Expert opinion is hardening behind attributing the deaths on Wednesday of hundreds of people in Damascus to a nerve agent such as sarin, with regional and western governments expecting to receive smuggled biological samples from the site in the coming days.

Chemical weapons specialists, who have studied footage showing the dead and dying victims of the attack, said several symptoms offered strong evidence that a nerve agent was used; it would be the worst such attack anywhere in the world in the past 25 years.

Stefan Mogl, a Swiss chemical weapons expert and former arms inspector, said: "There's a significant number of videos of children's faces and of adults who seem to have been exposed, that show typical symptoms of acetylcholinesterase inhibition poisoning, which coincides with a nerve agent."

And perhaps to bring this home in addition to the in excess of 100,000 prior deaths in this onslaught, reading a glimpse of what the children went through might bring it home...

"constricting of the pupils, or with excessive salivation, or with spasms, or gasping for air, one single incident is not very significant, but … I came to the conclusion that there is a likelihood of nerve agent poisoning and this should be thoroughly investigated. You see children dying, people with very severe effects. I've seen a lot of people with uncontrolled muscle movement."

Syria deaths: powerful asphyxiant in strike was probably sarin, say experts | World news | The Guardian

[donb9006]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Your "knowledge" of history is noted.

I would be curious how you stay "informed" ?? No TV, maybe, but that plus no reading is a bit scary. Hoping TOTV is not your news source

Another historical pint to consider....most historians agree that the USA delay in entering WWII almost gave the world to the Nazi's..cost us a lot of lives as it extended that war for years.

This is not to say I support any kind of war, but in addition to our President drawing a line at killing by using chemicals, how does one allow the mass murders of women and children to continue with our tacit approval. You have a greater trust in the "leaders" of the Mid East.

As I said, I do not trust these people to do the "right thing" (whatever that is, it is NOT gassing innocent people), and I pray our POTUS does the right thing before it visits our shores.

Knowledge and informed in quotes...you don't believe it? I know for a fact that "history" as written in the textbooks, isn't what really happened. I've been where history has happened and what's reported is FAR from what really happened...usually it's the "why" that is wrong.

Your fear of Nazi's is as strong as your fear of Islam...and that's not by accident. Hitler blamed the Jews for all ills...you blame Muslims. Same story, different people...same final outcome...war. War financed by the big banks, the materials created by big corporations. War is about money...oh, and to lower the unemployment rate for the "recovery" that comes after you've scooped up all the losers assets.

So we ARE the "worlds police" in your eyes? Let me tell you something I hope you take to heart. There's that common phrase that Bush used..."they hate us for our freedom". Well that's not exactly accurate...they hate us because we move in and take away THEIR freedom. We know better...

If you're so worried about people being killed needlessly, why not start here...in the inner cities. We have a whole group of people right here with views on human life's value far different then yours. Didn't some just kill a guy because they were bored? Police them before you go after the rest of the world.

You don't know WHO is gassing whom. Ever hear the phrase "false flag"? Look into it, it's a common theme in governments.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by donb9006

Knowledge and informed in quotes...you don't believe it? I know for a fact that "history" as written in the textbooks, isn't what really happened. I've been where history has happened and what's reported is FAR from what really happened...usually it's the "why" that is wrong.

Your fear of Nazi's is as strong as your fear of Islam...and that's not by accident. Hitler blamed the Jews for all ills...you blame Muslims. Same story, different people...same final outcome...war. War financed by the big banks, the materials created by big corporations. War is about money...oh, and to lower the unemployment rate for the "recovery" that comes after you've scooped up all the losers assets.

So we ARE the "worlds police" in your eyes? Let me tell you something I hope you take to heart. There's that common phrase that Bush used..."they hate us for our freedom". Well that's not exactly accurate...they hate us because we move in and take away THEIR freedom. We know better...

If you're so worried about people being killed needlessly, why not start here...in the inner cities. We have a whole group of people right here with views on human life's value far different then yours. Didn't some just kill a guy because they were bored? Police them before you go after the rest of the world.

You don't know WHO is gassing whom. Ever hear the phrase "false flag"? Look into it, it's a common theme in governments.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by donb9006

Knowledge and informed in quotes...you don't believe it? I know for a fact that "history" as written in the textbooks, isn't what really happened. I've been where history has happened and what's reported is FAR from what really happened...usually it's the "why" that is wrong.

Your fear of Nazi's is as strong as your fear of Islam...and that's not by accident. Hitler blamed the Jews for all ills...you blame Muslims. Same story, different people...same final outcome...war. War financed by the big banks, the materials created by big corporations. War is about money...oh, and to lower the unemployment rate for the "recovery" that comes after you've scooped up all the losers assets.

So we ARE the "worlds police" in your eyes? Let me tell you something I hope you take to heart. There's that common phrase that Bush used..."they hate us for our freedom". Well that's not exactly accurate...they hate us because we move in and take away THEIR freedom. We know better...

If you're so worried about people being killed needlessly, why not start here...in the inner cities. We have a whole group of people right here with views on human life's value far different then yours. Didn't some just kill a guy because they were bored? Police them before you go after the rest of the world.

You don't know WHO is gassing whom. Ever hear the phrase "false flag"? Look into it, it's a common theme in governments.

We share many views, believe it or not. I am just not quite as cynical as you are.

I do want to make a point....you said...

"If you're so worried about people being killed needlessly, why not start here...in the inner cities. We have a whole group of people right here with views on human life's value far different then yours. Didn't some just kill a guy because they were bored? Police them before you go after the rest of the world."


I agree and there has been a number of threads on exactly that issue. Your views are welcome.....I am of the belief that we will not discuss the real problem with inner city crime because it is not politically correct. On the threads revolving around the Zimmerman case, my comments were not received well......again, I got all the social reasons for problems. If we do not face it straight up despite the sensitivites, it will never be solved. So, we agree on what has to be done in this country,,it just seems certain parts of our country will not allow it to happen, thus I hope I am wrong. I do know I am tired of being called a racist, etc

On Syria, your historical references have much value.....trust me...I agree with you that jumping into frays is not smart, BUT the world is much smaller today, and so the location is a mute point. It is hard for me not to want to defend innocent people being slaughtered which is what has been happening for over a year and now with gas.

Also, NEVER did I express FEAR of anyone....NEVER did I express a desire to go to war. That conclusion leap you made is exactly what happens in a discussion of this countries problems in the inner city and the leap is that I must be a racist or whatever the term is today.

I am of the feeling that the world is much too small to run away from trouble or we will face it. If you desire to call that fear, so be it...your call, but it is not.

[shcisamax]

And WHERE is the rest of the civilized world in this? Outside of France which is frankly (get it ? frankly?) of no use when it comes to actually doing anything militarily, no one is stepping up to condemn this and offer help to the innocents of Syria. Why is it always the US that has to make the decision and then beg for help. Time for other countries to put on their big boy pants and be good global citizens instead of sit on the sidelines. Time to stop asking the US to be the first one on the block and then criticize the US for intervening after things go wrong.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by shcisamax

And WHERE is the rest of the civilized world in this? Outside of France which is frankly (get it ? frankly?) of no use when it comes to actually doing anything militarily, no one is stepping up to condemn this and offer help to the innocents of Syria. Why is it always the US that has to make the decision and then beg for help. Time for other countries to put on their big boy pants and be good global citizens instead of sit on the sidelines. Time to stop asking the US to be the first one on the block and then criticize the US for intervening after things go wrong.

Where is the "like" button?

[Bucco]

I had to leave while typing a response to donb9006 so would just like to add this which is so frustrating tome...

If I say we need to crack down on inner city crime...eventually I will be called a racist

If I say we need to modify all the handouts in this country....eventually I will be called a racist or non sympathatic

If I say we need to work on family values...eventually I will be called an elitist, racist or old.

If I say we need to stop terrorism in the world, especially before it gets to our country....eventually I will be called afraid of Muslims

If I say I really question Al Jazeera being here...I am called afraid of muslims.

The list goes on and on.....you cannot discuss things without a label akin to what I have said being laid on you.

Why cannot we call things what they are....why cannot we discuss things without the labeling ?

Do not know if this frustrates anyone else, but it sure does me.

[kittygilchrist]

This was the news in Jerusalem, Feb 14, 2012 re: a Syrian defector's statements.
http://jerusalemworldnews.com/2012/0...-homs-attacks/

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by Bucco

I had to leave while typing a response to donb9006 so would just like to add this which is so frustrating tome...

If I say we need to crack down on inner city crime...eventually I will be called a racist

If I say we need to modify all the handouts in this country....eventually I will be called a racist or non sympathatic

If I say we need to work on family values...eventually I will be called an elitist, racist or old.

If I say we need to stop terrorism in the world, especially before it gets to our country....eventually I will be called afraid of Muslims

If I say I really question Al Jazeera being here...I am called afraid of muslims.

The list goes on and on.....you cannot discuss things without a label akin to what I have said being laid on you.

Why cannot we call things what they are....why cannot we discuss things without the labeling ?

Do not know if this frustrates anyone else, but it sure does me.

I, and I'm sure many people here, share these exact frustrations.

Intelligent, logical, cogent arguments are reduced to name calling and one-word labeling, summing up worthy debate opponents and throwing lye on them with terms like "bigot", "racist", "homophobe", "xenophobe", "hater".......

....and "fool" which is clearly implied in the posts about saying everything we're learning and digesting from MANY varied sources is merely "propaganda".

Like we're all gullible fools for paying attention abroad to events in the Middle East that boil over and lead up to attacks and massacres like we had on our own soil on 9/11/2001. But then, mockery is a powerful tool, as stated in Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" (for community organizers), Rule #5.

"Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”

And this one:

“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

Rules for Radicals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[donb9006]

Remember, Germans overwhelmingly elected Hitler as their savior...they WERE all fooled by propaganda. We're being fooled too... It's devastating to have your world view shattered, but it needs shattering. Professional psychologists, professional marketers, work tirelessly to "sell you something", whether it be a product or an idea. The world is run by ugly people...

Bucco, we're cool. These are just my opinions...at this time...with the information I currently have...it's subject to change at any time.