[Clawdio45]

I'm surprised to note that nobody has mentioned the upcoming Chevrolet Bolt, also an all-electric car, priced in the mid-$30k range before tax credits, and also offering a 200 mile range. The difference is, the Bolt is going to be in showrooms before the end of 2016. Tesla 3 is prettier to look at, for sure, but for Tesla to be successful, the Model 3 really must make a profit for the company. GM has deeper pockets and can afford to keep margins low.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Nationwide, electric carts outsell gas by a huge margin. Electrics are less costly to run and maintain and will last a lot longer.

My guess is that there are two reasons as to why there are so many gas carts here. Number one, Yamaha makes the best gas golf carts. They made them even better when the introduce EFI. I don't believe that the developer owns the Yamaha dealerships here, but there certainly seems to be a very close relationship between the two.

Secondly, before the advent of 8 six volt battery configuration and the Ranger batteries, electric were limited to a range of only about 20-25 miles on a charge. As The Villages grew, residents wanted to travel greater distances. The only solution was gas carts.

Also nationwide, there are more Club Cars (mostly electric) sold than any other brand. EX-Go sells more (again mostly electric) than third place finisher, Yamaha. Like I say, there's something different about The Villages where Yamaha seems to be the brand of choice.

Part of this could be the application. Most golf carts sold in the world are sold in fleets to be used on golf courses. If a course can get two rounds a day out it's fleet it will do very well. Until Club Car invented the 48 volt system, two rounds was pushing the limit. The 48 volt system allowed courses to get up to three rounds out of one charge. Still that's only about twelve miles. In The Villages and other golf cart communities people want to be able to travel much more than 12 miles in a day. Now with better electric technology I'm wondering if we'll see the pendulum begin to swing back to electrics.

Doc: I do not doubt a word you say and my personal preference is an electric cart. Yet battery technology has improved batteries lose their efficacy as time passes and as a result distance anxiety prevailed. So I finally surrendered and purchased a Yamaha EFI and while I still hate the noise but I am game to travel anywhere and everywhere.

The other benefit is that I do not need to worry about charging up the cart every time I take it out for a ride or concerned as to whether the charger will properly disconnect causing an overcharge and possibly a fire. Nor do I have a concern about checking battery water levels

[tuccillo]

I believe gas carts may have a lower operating cost. While the cost for electricity per mile is less with electric carts (about 2 cents/mile) than the cost of gasoline per mile with gas carts (about 4 cents/mile), you also need to consider the cost per mile for battery pack replacement for electric carts (about 10 cents/mile based on a battery pack life estimate from ParCar). Gas carts do have some maintenance costs but it is probably on the order of 2-3 cents/mile, depending on how much you drive. The net is the operating cost of gas carts should be about one-half of electric carts. Regardless, they don't differ enough to really matter. If you buy a new cart, the operating cost per year is a small percentage of what you paid for the cart. Regarding how long a cart will last, either gas or electric can be kept running as long as you want, up to the point where the frame falls apart from rust or parts are no longer available. I estimate engine life for a gas cart at about 4000 hours if you maintain it. For our driving habits, that is about 70K miles or nearly 20 years - it really isn't an issue.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Nationwide, electric carts outsell gas by a huge margin. Electrics are less costly to run and maintain and will last a lot longer.

My guess is that there are two reasons as to why there are so many gas carts here. Number one, Yamaha makes the best gas golf carts. They made them even better when the introduce EFI. I don't believe that the developer owns the Yamaha dealerships here, but there certainly seems to be a very close relationship between the two.

Secondly, before the advent of 8 six volt battery configuration and the Ranger batteries, electric were limited to a range of only about 20-25 miles on a charge. As The Villages grew, residents wanted to travel greater distances. The only solution was gas carts.

Also nationwide, there are more Club Cars (mostly electric) sold than any other brand. EX-Go sells more (again mostly electric) than third place finisher, Yamaha. Like I say, there's something different about The Villages where Yamaha seems to be the brand of choice.

Part of this could be the application. Most golf carts sold in the world are sold in fleets to be used on golf courses. If a course can get two rounds a day out it's fleet it will do very well. Until Club Car invented the 48 volt system, two rounds was pushing the limit. The 48 volt system allowed courses to get up to three rounds out of one charge. Still that's only about twelve miles. In The Villages and other golf cart communities people want to be able to travel much more than 12 miles in a day. Now with better electric technology I'm wondering if we'll see the pendulum begin to swing back to electrics.

[kbace6]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Wow. This could change the automobile landscape. An electric five passenger sedan that goes from zero to 60 mph in 6 seconds with a minimum range of 215 miles. And a $35,000 price tag that puts it into a very popular price range.

Tesla has $3.5 billion in preorders for this model. Can a Tesla golf cart be far off?

While I can appreciate your enthusiasm, can you come up with a single car that Elon Musk has sold at or even anywhere near the initial announced asking price? I'm a big fan of Tesla and Elon Musk. I even own stock in Tesla as well as Solar City, but truth be told, Elon Musk has never met a car price he has marketed. It is always wayyyy more than what he says it will be.

[jojo]

Our son lives in Los Altos Hills and just bought his second Tesla, The new one is driverless. He said it worked beautifully on the 280. I can't wrap my head around it yet although we do see the Google cars frequently when we are out there.

[Shimpy]

Originally Posted by justjim

$42,000 for a car that will go only about 200 miles. You got to be kidding.

If you want to take a trip and leave early in the morning you wouldn't even make it to lunch time before you need to stop and recharge, probably for the rest of the day.

[Chi-Town]

Maybe this has been linked before, but this used to be science fiction.


https://youtu.be/8_lfxPI5ObM

[Chi-Town]

Originally Posted by Shimpy

If you want to take a trip and leave early in the morning you wouldn't even make it to lunch time before you need to stop and recharge, probably for the rest of the day.

Tesla is opening supercharger stations which cut the charging time down to minutes.

https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

[tuccillo]

Tens of minutes.

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Tesla is opening supercharger stations which cut the charging time down to minutes.

https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

[Nucky]

It really is a beautiful, sleek automobile. The real challenge is to change the culture of the public. Not going to be fast or easy to achieve. If the range was increased to 400 to 500 miles then it would be more acceptable. I struggle with having to go off course to find a charge on a road trip. We are like a pit crew when a comfort break is needed. I wouldn't want to go off our route more than 1/4 mile to get a charge. Congratulations if you were one of the first to get one.

[DeanFL]

Certainly there has been tons of market research done on the topic of non internal combustion vehicles. And certainly there is a huge market for electric cars as the Bolt and Tesla III. The gvt tax credits provide a springboard as well.
I would believe the sweet spot of that market is congested metro areas, with many commuters traveling less than 100 miles per day, some of it idling in traffic etc, where the second car is the commute car and another for occas longer distance needs, higher disposable income, environmentalists, etc etc. The prime growth market now being LA & SF & Seattle.

We have a Prius now for 5 years, and must say - it's great not having the int combustion engine running all the time - only when needed, and getting 50+mpg without trying.

For those with the $ and needs for an elec car - more power to them. I hope that market swells and that nat gas vehicle market blooms too.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

I believe gas carts may have a lower operating cost. While the cost for electricity per mile is less with electric carts (about 2 cents/mile) than the cost of gasoline per mile with gas carts (about 4 cents/mile), you also need to consider the cost per mile for battery pack replacement for electric carts (about 10 cents/mile based on a battery pack life estimate from ParCar). Gas carts do have some maintenance costs but it is probably on the order of 2-3 cents/mile, depending on how much you drive. The net is the operating cost of gas carts should be about one-half of electric carts. Regardless, they don't differ enough to really matter. If you buy a new cart, the operating cost per year is a small percentage of what you paid for the cart. Regarding how long a cart will last, either gas or electric can be kept running as long as you want, up to the point where the frame falls apart from rust or parts are no longer available. I estimate engine life for a gas cart at about 4000 hours if you maintain it. For our driving habits, that is about 70K miles or nearly 20 years - it really isn't an issue.

Not sure about that. But having worked in the golf industry for thirty five years, I can tell you that the vast majority of golf courses opt for electric carts because, in the long run, they are less expensive to run and maintain.

[tuccillo]

I assume the typical golf course leases the electric carts so they never directly bear the cost of battery replacement? Cart ownership is different here as you may be replacing battery pack several times. That is where the majority of the operating cost will show up.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Not sure about that. But having worked in the golf industry for thirty five years, I can tell you that the vast majority of golf courses opt for electric carts because, in the long run, they are less expensive to run and maintain.

[Chi-Town]

All of us have lived through oil embargoes and OPEC production cuts. Any advance which lessens our dependence on an unstable economic and political energy source strengthens us.

[Shimpy]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Tesla is opening supercharger stations which cut the charging time down to minutes.

https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

They have that in the parking lot of Mimis restaurant in Ocala. I always notice it because my CB radio on my bike goes crazy with static as I pull in. I wonder how long it takes to recharge. Until they are as common as gas stations then taking a trip and hoping to find a charging station along your route would be a problem. I doubt this will come about in my lifetime.