[RickeyD]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

9/11 was Al Qaeda. ISIS is a different country and different group of extremists and a different decade. We are at war with ISIS not with all Muslims or even with just some Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami...and_the_Levant

Institute for the Study of War

I don't buy the good German argument. For the purpose of efficiency I propose we kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out. Who's side are you on anyway ?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

9/11 was Al Qaeda. ISIS is a different country and different group of extremists and a different decade. We are at war with ISIS not with all Muslims or even with just some Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami...and_the_Levant

Institute for the Study of War

I am not sure that there is much difference in the extremists. Some of them use suicide vests...that is the ultimate belief in your faith I guess.


We Catholics were told by sister that to die protecting your faith in God would cause you to be a martyr. I didn't want to die and be a martyr but I guessed it must be a good thing if sister said so.


Most of us American people are more accepting of everyone's religion...but we draw the line at violence against others. Death for sure. How do we know who has the white cowboy hats and who has the black ones?


We don't. So we become afraid of all cowboys. Some a lot, some a little. And that is bigotry I am told. You can't help being afraid. It isn't a decision.

[kittygilchrist]

I was introduced to the word Jihad in 92 touring Israel, when our tour was rerouted due to Intifada, and where bombs were being used to kill Jews on buses, etc.

What is not understood is that these are not acts of terror, they are acts intended to ultimately eradicate Jews, Christians, and anyone else not Islamic. In my opinion the white hat good cowboys, to use Gracie's terms, are bound by their good conscience from calling Muslim teaching in the "holy" Quran, EVIL.

The great lie is that Evil is not truly real, and that people are by nature peaceable, a humanistic ideology that calls evil good and good evil. The lie is turning the world we live in upside down and if this country continues to be ruled by such people we have little hope.

Gracie's question how to recognize which individuals are evil speaks of her gentleness, but may be the wrong question to be asking. Are we willing to die ouselves from the evil ones to protect any Muslim who may be innocent?

I acknowledge that a very clever spirit has been at work over the ages, intent on universal death and destruction, and especially focused on eradication of Jews first and Christians second. We are seeing the face of Islam, now that it's followers are all over the globe and in position to be activated.

Allah never had intention to terrorize. Allah intends to kill everyone who will not worship him, while promising glory to his own suicidal followers.

[Justus]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

9/11 was Al Qaeda. ISIS is a different country and different group of extremists and a different decade. We are at war with ISIS not with all Muslims or even with just some Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami...and_the_Levant

Institute for the Study of War

You're kidding, right? That's like saying there was a difference among the axis countries of WWII. ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram...all united by the same religion, same god, same objective...to kill us and conquer the world in the name of Allah.

[Justus]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

I was introduced to the word Jihad in 92 touring Israel, when our tour was rerouted due to Intfada, and where bombs were being used to kill Jews on buses, etc.

What is not understood is that these are not acts of terror, they are acts intended to ultimately eradicate Jews, Christians, and anyone else not Islamic. In my opinion the white hat good cowboys, to use Gracie's terms, are bound by their good conscience from calling Muslim teaching in the "holy" Quran, EVIL.

The great lie is that Evil is not truly real, and that people are by nature peaceable, a humanistic ideology that calls evil good and good evil. The lie is turning the world we live in upside down and if this country continues to be ruled by such people we have little hope.

Gracie's question how to recognize which individuals are evil speaks of her gentleness, but may be the wrong question to be asking. Are we willing to die ouselves from the evil ones to protect any Muslim who may be innocent?

I acknowledge that a very clever spirit has been at work over the ages, intent on universal death and destruction, and especially focused on eradication of Jews first and Christians second. We are seeing the face of Islam, now that it's followers are all over the globe and in position to be activated.

Allah never had intention to terrorize. Allah intends to kill everyone who will not worship him.

Very cogent presentation of the facts. Good for you.

[Justus]

Originally Posted by RickeyD

I do get it. Every time I walk down Vesey St. I get visions of people jumping to their deaths choosing that over burning alive. I hear people screaming and see people running. We are at war my friend. and the time to understand another's culture or religion is for another time, not now.

We are at war, and you are right. This is not the time for cultural "outreach", but a time to defend our country.

[kittygilchrist]

Originally Posted by Justus

Very cogent presentation of the facts. Good for you.

Thank you. I would add that the name of the killers may be muslim brotherhood, al queada, isis, boko haram, and on and on....we are not in a war only with isis, but with the words and spirit of Islam.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

Thank you. I would add that the name of the killers may be muslim brotherhood, al queada, isis, boko haram, and on and on....we are not in a war only with isis, but with the words and spirit of Islam.

"Words and spirit of Islam"? What does this mean? About Jihad - Islam Jihad and Terrorism

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Justus

You're kidding, right? That's like saying there was a difference among the axis countries of WWII. ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram...all united by the same religion, same god, same objective...to kill us and conquer the world in the name of Allah.

I am sure that the soldiers actually fighting in WWII knew very well that they were fighting in different countries especially after that one surrendered and they had to move onto the next one.

And only ISIS seems to have it that they want to create a country only made up of people who practice whatever their version of Islam actually is. That probably depends on whoever actually happens to be in control of ISIS at that moment and the US and its allies do kill off these leaders of ISIS and they did with Saddam Hussein and his group and Al Qaeda and their group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi

Boko Haram is a very different organization than ISIS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abubakar_Shekau Boko Harem did swear allegiance to ISIS but that could change quickly as well again if we nail their leaders which does seem to be a priority.

[goodtimesintv]

I am really tired of the vague term "Extremism" used instead of "terrorism" and "religious genocide".

Extremism exists in the mind, thoughts, views and speech, but not necessarily in acts of torture and butchery-killing.

For example, Westboro Baptist is definitely "extremist" in their views and speech and brainwashing of their congregants. But as far as I know, they do not kidnap, rape, behead, shoot, bomb, or crucify their targeted victims.

Islamic terrorists ARE committing these bloody atrocities, and they are committing genocide of Christians as well as Jews. But our government is afraid or too PC to actually SAY it.

A decidedly liberal columnist says it well, here:

Kirsten Powers: John Kerry should recognize Christian genocide

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Justus

We are at war, and you are right. This is not the time for cultural "outreach", but a time to defend our country.

The best intelligence is through this outreach.

[cologal]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Thanks for your level headed approach and decency.

I agree

[RickeyD]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The best intelligence is through this outreach.

As your head is being cut from your neck remember that thought.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

The thread on the awful shooting in San Bernardino has been taken over as a debate on guns.


I am worried about the insidious threat by a group defined by a religion. Being critical of anyone because of their religion is a no no, and yet a woman in Kentucky who is very far right was highly criticized for not issuing marriage licenses to gay people. I don't agree with that but she was acting according to her extreme religious beliefs. This group of Islamic terrorists are very conservative and very devout. Who can argue that that usually is an alright thing. Those folks usually become pastors and priests and Rabbi's and nuns and teachers in Christian schools...nice things, or at least fairly understandable to most of us. But this is a different thing going on.


I don't know anyone who really knows well someone who is wearing a burka or a cap. I don't know anyone who is a scholar of the Koran. I think that Islamic people who dress like westerners aren't radicalized, BUT Syeed Farook dressed like a westerner in his job as a health inspector.


We could usually tell if a family member was heading toward the convent because they would go to daily Mass and not hit their brother as often. But Islamic MEN go to the Mosque three times a day. (The women aren't allowed to go to the Mosque to pray, just for the PTA and stuff like that or am I wrong?)


I am not worried about this for us in The Villages because we don't have a large Muslim community but we moved from a subdivision with a mosque and my children and friends still live there.


How can we know when an Islamic person is heading along the path to being devout? Their family isn't going to tell on them, because I think they must be kinda proud of that.


Please don't be angry at me. This is on my mind. Does anyone know more than I do on this subject? I know it is probably politically incorrect to discuss it.

Bottom line, we don't.

If you look back in History many Religions have had periods of violence. The Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Burnings, The Dark Ages, Early Islam. The difference is the violence was either born out of ignorance, fear, and superstition, not out of written text. The Quran has passages that are very explicit about how Islam is to be evangelized to the world. None of those passages are compatible with any 21st Century rational thinking. There is a war today and it has two fronts. The war of bullets is very easy for us to win. The war of ideas is far more complicated. Not all Muslims believe the Quran passages as explicit but some do. Its extremely hard to believe some one whose very foundation used for worship expresses violence and deceit as acceptable tools for spreading their ideas.

Also, Freedom does not come without some risk. When we compromise our ideals because of their actions, they win!

[jebartle]

This has been a very respectful and thoughtful dialogue about a very serious world concern. A good example of TOTVers that contribute thoughts and facts to all of us....Thanks