[Rags123]

Originally Posted by billethkid

I personally do not think the scenario and question being asked regarding compassion is the heart of the issue.

It assumes the current condition and completely ignores the cause that until stopped will only add to the roles of those who the compassion is being directed.

Why should there be any change whatsoever to the existing law which is not being enforced? How big would the problem be if the law were enforced instead of looking the other way or ignoring it in it's entirety?

Why are the immigration laws treated differently at our southern border than they are at the north, east and western borders?

Why are the visas not enforced as they are for many of our neighbors here in TV from Canada and other countries?

Just to iterate a few of the many questions that remain unanswered.

This subject just like the ACA was unpopular with and not supported overwhelmingly by the American public by landslide magnitude numbers, yet our law makers (our representatives?) go forth and implement anyway.
Just how is that allowed to happen in a democratic society made up of we the people and the representatives are elected to serve and represent we the people?

No I do not buy into being limited to address compassion which may or may not be warranted. Where has the cry for compassion been for the last 20 years?

As others have posted above where is the cry for compassion for those born here or here legally that have the same or worse needs?
And to ignore the issue of compassion for our veterens with all the health care issues, non care, homeless, living in the streets, unemplyed.....and on and on.

No more compassion from me than I have been asked to provide the same folks for the last 20 years. No compassion from me until I see that American and legalized citizens (one in the same!) of the USA are taken care of first.

Like very many things needed today....compassion begins at home.

I don't think I would get too much back lash from those in the church audience.

We know that one of the issues that sets our southern input aside and different from the other borders is there are so many million already here!
We also know that as this population matures, has children and they have children.....some will obviously become citizens by the existing laws and hence will become voters!!!! (a subject for a political forum....somewhere!)

Good post. Just add my thinking...this need to try and make everyone feel guilty in the name of an agenda is finally beginning to wear thin in this country. Maybe people will begin to weigh long term ramifications instead of short term agenda gains.

[njbchbum]

There is no/are no executive order[s] on immigration reform!

Obama did not sign an executive order to implement the immigration policy he announced to the nation_Jerome R. Corsi | Politics

It Is Completely Irrelevant That Obama Never Signed An Executive Order On Immigration - Conn Carroll

[rubicon]

In my view those who wish to enter the United States need to come through the front door. If one recalls immigrants were required to come to Ellis Island to determine if they could enter this country. Those found ill were either treated and sent back to their native lands. Illegals just from a medical standpoint only are placing us at great risk because they have not been innoculated for diseases that we have conquered or control. when the medical epidemics start then we will see o has compassion and who does not?

The lack of assimilation is another problem not only socially but from a national defense because unity is essential in the face of our enemies.

The argument that they will take jobs that Americans won't is a canard. Politician allow it for votes and business people to sustain a low cost work force. The truth is if immigrants didn't take these jobs they would be come more competitive and wages would rise.

The actions taken by the federal government has done nothing but encourage more immigrants to make the journey.

One poster referenced bribes being taken by the border patrol. I believe it and I also believe it is a reflection that these border patrol officers have been demoralized by the inefficient of politicians to resolve this issue and as such figure whether I do or do not take a bribe they are going to cross and stay. Do I agree with this of course not its a criminal act and one committed by law enforcement personnel....throw the book at them

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

There is no/are no executive order[s] on immigration reform!

Obama did not sign an executive order to implement the immigration policy he announced to the nation_Jerome R. Corsi | Politics

It Is Completely Irrelevant That Obama Never Signed An Executive Order On Immigration - Conn Carroll

I had read this and allow me to show my stupidity..

1. The memos he signed have the same affect as his "executive order"....is that correct ?

2. If he then did not tell the truth when he announced it as he did, is this just another of the multitude of ploys ? Why would not the media pick up on this an make it a big story ?

I honestly do not know and hoping someone can clarify. I THINK his memos have the same affect, and maybe I am just overreacting to the sleight of hand.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

President Obama signed his executive order regarding some illegal immigrants. We have seen posts on here bemoaning 11 million illegal immigrants getting free health insurance, voting cards, driver licenses, or other things.

What are the real details of the executive order?

There have been other posts that said compassion means to do nothing for these people like give them the legal opportunity to work but that they knew they would live in a shadow society and be paid substandard wages to do jobs that Americans will not do. Is this the compassion our churches teach us? Is this the compassion we have taught our children and they pass onto their children?

This doesn't answer your question but I think it helps keep wealth in perspective.

August 28, 2014 5:04 PM

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico City's mayor has proposed increasing the country's roughly $5 per-day minimum wage to $6 a day.

Mayor Miguel Angel Mancera suggested Thursday that the city raise the 67.29 peso minimum wage to 82.86 pesos per day. That's about the price of a hamburger meal at a chain restaurant in Mexico.

Mancera says low wages are "at the heart of all of the country's economic and social problems."

{I think it's at the heart of our country's economic and social problems too. In 1970 my NJ college tuition was $350/year and minimum wage was $1.60/hr}

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by tomwed

This doesn't answer your question but I think it helps keep wealth in perspective.

August 28, 2014 5:04 PM

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico City's mayor has proposed increasing the country's roughly $5 per-day minimum wage to $6 a day.

Mayor Miguel Angel Mancera suggested Thursday that the city raise the 67.29 peso minimum wage to 82.86 pesos per day. That's about the price of a hamburger meal at a chain restaurant in Mexico.

Mancera says low wages are "at the heart of all of the country's economic and social problems."


{I think it's at the heart of our country's economic and social problems too. In 1970 my NJ college tuition was $350/year and minimum wage was $1.60/hr}

Cost of living in Mexico City to offer a bit of perspective ?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by tomwed

This doesn't answer your question but I think it helps keep wealth in perspective.

August 28, 2014 5:04 PM

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico City's mayor has proposed increasing the country's roughly $5 per-day minimum wage to $6 a day.

Mayor Miguel Angel Mancera suggested Thursday that the city raise the 67.29 peso minimum wage to 82.86 pesos per day. That's about the price of a hamburger meal at a chain restaurant in Mexico.

Mancera says low wages are "at the heart of all of the country's economic and social problems."

{I think it's at the heart of our country's economic and social problems too. In 1970 my NJ college tuition was $350/year and minimum wage was $1.60/hr}

Someone will do the math.

I think college education should be free, but only to those who can hold a decent grade average. I think technical school education should be free too, but only to those who can hold a decent grade average. I think that food and shelter for kids doing these studies should be free too, but not caviar and elegance. Decent food and a clean room.

And if you can't do that then how to survive and maintain yourself independently school should be offered, but not to anyone addicted to drugs.

But Hey...I doubt if anyone would vote for THAT. We waste so much government money on loser students who don't even go to school.

And the rich folks can send their kids to the way too expensive schools and pay for their sororities and fraternities and fancy cars. I know which group I would bet on to succeed.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Rags123

Cost of living in Mexico City to offer a bit of perspective ?

If a hamburger is the price of a days wages that's a start.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by tomwed

If a hamburger is the price of a days wages that's a start.

none of these comparisons are of any value as they stand alone. What is considered low, average and high income in Mexico.

What is earned there means nothing against USA incomes/values!

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by tomwed

If a hamburger is the price of a days wages that's a start.

Since you did not supply a link to where your information came from, I cannot comment on that however...

"Indices Difference Info
Consumer Prices in United States are 85.47% higher than in Mexico
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 112.21% higher than in Mexico
Rent Prices in United States are 211.03% higher than in Mexico
Restaurant Prices in United States are 106.12% higher than in Mexico
Groceries Prices in United States are 92.51% higher than in Mexico
Local Purchasing Power in United States is 132.16% higher than in Mexico"

Cost Of Living Comparison Between Mexico And United States

Mexico City is #21 on the list of the Worlds cheapest cities.

25 Of The World's Cheapest Places To Live

No big deal but I did not see any relevance with your post to the thread topic, and I really like to keep things in their proper context.

[Sandtrap328]

Originally Posted by rubicon

In my view those who wish to enter the United States need to come through the front door. If one recalls immigrants were required to come to Ellis Island to determine if they could enter this country. Those found ill were either treated and sent back to their native lands. Illegals just from a medical standpoint only are placing us at great risk because they have not been innoculated for diseases that we have conquered or control. when the medical epidemics start then we will see o has compassion and who does not?

The lack of assimilation is another problem not only socially but from a national defense because unity is essential in the face of our enemies.

The argument that they will take jobs that Americans won't is a canard. Politician allow it for votes and business people to sustain a low cost work force. The truth is if immigrants didn't take these jobs they would be come more competitive and wages would rise.

The actions taken by the federal government has done nothing but encourage more immigrants to make the journey.

One poster referenced bribes being taken by the border patrol. I believe it and I also believe it is a reflection that these border patrol officers have been demoralized by the inefficient of politicians to resolve this issue and as such figure whether I do or do not take a bribe they are going to cross and stay. Do I agree with this of course not its a criminal act and one committed by law enforcement personnel....throw the book at them

Where is the salt shaker?
1. Diseases? I have not heard of one immigrant who was caught spreading a disease. Please illuminate me.

2. Being social is necessary to national security? Huh?

3. Immigrants do not take jobs that Americans do not do? Absolutely true. Read a book called "Postville - a clash of cultures".

4. Bribes? On the Mexican side, maybe. On the American side - you are denigrating US law enforcement officers with slanderous talk like this.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

Where is the salt shaker?
1. Diseases? I have not heard of one immigrant who was caught spreading a disease. Please illuminate me.

2. Being social is necessary to national security? Huh?

3. Immigrants do not take jobs that Americans do not do? Absolutely true. Read a book called "Postville - a clash of cultures".

4. Bribes? On the Mexican side, maybe. On the American side - you are denigrating US law enforcement officers with slanderous talk like this.

1. Disease....

"Communicable diseases continue to be a problem at the New Mexico facility built to house illegal immigrant families surging across the U.S.-Mexico border, and the immigrants themselves aren’t taking their own health care very seriously, according to an audit released Monday."

Read more: Disease plagues illegal immigrants; lack of medications, basic hygiene blamed - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

"MCALLEN, TX - There’s a growing health concern with hundreds of illegal immigrants crossing over into southern Texas.

U.S. Border Patrol agents are worried that what's coming over into the U.S. could harm everyone.

This time the focus is not on the women and children that are crossing over in droves.

Agents are worrying about a viral outbreak.

“We are sending people everywhere. The average person doesn't know what's going on down here,” said Border Patrol agent and Rio Grande Valley Union representative Chris Cabrera."

Cabrera says agents are seeing illegal immigrants come over with contagious infections."

Undocumented Immigrants bringing diseases across border? - ABC15 Arizona

2. Assimilation...

"Beyond the economic arguments, legalization and immigration have raised important issues of culture, national identity, and citizenship. Assimilation has been an important theme in America’s immigration history. Previous waves of immigrants and their children have been expected to support themselves in the economy, learn English, and become active participants in American society. As a rule, immigrants have done just that throughout our history—despite doubts by contemporary critics about each wave of “new” immigrants. A broader concern about immigration reform is that newly legalized Mexican immigrants and even their descendants will fail to assimilate into American society. Scholars such as Samuel Huntington and Victor Davis Hanson argue that Mexican migration today is unique in U.S. history in its size and social impact.

They and others contend that, unlike previous immigrant groups, Mexican migrants retain close ties to their nearby homeland, dominate other immigrant groups in sheer numbers, and concentrate geographically into insular, Spanish-speaking communities that slow their assimilation. On closer examination, none of those concerns are serious enough to warrant increased restrictions on migration from Mexico. "

Mexican Migration, Legalization, and Assimilation | Cato Institute

3. Taking of jobs....

"That immigrants take the jobs of American-born citizens is “something that virtually no learned person believes in,” Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration expert at the libertarian Cato Institute, said at a Thursday panel. “It’s sort of a silly thing.”

Most economists don’t find immigrants driving down wages or jobs, the Brookings Institution's Michael Greenstone and Adam Looney wrote in May. In fact, “on average, immigrant workers increase the opportunities and incomes of Americans,” they write. Foreign-born workers don’t affect the employment rate positively or negatively, according to a 2011 analysis from the conservative American Enterprise Institute. And a study released Wednesday by the liberal Center for American Progress suggests that granting legal status to undocumented workers might even create jobs."

Left and Right Agree: Immigrants Don't Take American Jobs - NationalJournal.com

Bribes....

"Federal law enforcement officials are investigating a series of bribery and smuggling cases in what they fear is a sign of increased corruption among officers who patrol the Mexican border.

Two brothers who worked for the U.S. Border Patrol disappeared in June while under investigation for smuggling drugs and immigrants, and are believed to have fled to Mexico. In the past month, two agents from Customs and Border Protection, which guards border checkpoints, were indicted for taking bribes to allow illegal immigrants to enter the United States. And earlier this month, two Border Patrol supervisory agents pleaded guilty to accepting nearly $200,000 in payoffs to release smugglers and illegal immigrants who had been detained.

Authorities say two factors are causing concern that larger problems may develop: The massive buildup of Border Patrol agents in recent years has led to worries that hiring standards have been lowered; and, as smugglers demand higher and higher fees to bring illegal immigrants into the United States, their efforts to bribe those guarding the border have intensified."

Bribery At Border Worries Officials

"Bribery of federal and local officials by Mexican smugglers is rising sharply, and with it the fear that a culture of corruption is taking hold along the 2,000-mile border from Brownsville, Texas, to San Diego.

At least 200 public employees have been charged with helping to move narcotics or illegal immigrants across the U.S.-Mexican border since 2004, at least double the illicit activity documented in prior years, a Times examination of public records has found. Thousands more are under investigation.

Criminal charges have been brought against Border Patrol agents, local police, a county sheriff, motor vehicle clerks, an FBI supervisor, immigration examiners, prison guards, school district officials and uniformed personnel of every branch of the U.S. military, among others. The vast majority have pleaded guilty or been convicted."

Mexico's Drug War - LA Times

[Sandtrap328]

As the reply states, there is very little issue with health concerns for immigrants, assimilation is a non- issue and certainly not a national security issue, they are not taking jobs from Americans who want those jobs, and there have been some dishonest law enforcement officers on the borders.

Good post. Thanks for the lynx.

[Rags123]

A little bit more on jobs....

"the defenders of illegal aliens — ethnic advocacy groups, employer groups, and church-based groups — often assert that illegal aliens only take jobs unwanted by U.S. workers. This is patently false because they are working in jobs in which U.S. workers are also employed — whether in construction, agricultural harvesting or service professions.
If the hiring of illegal alien workers is prevalent in a sector of the economy, as it has become the case in seasonal crop agriculture, the willingness of foreign workers to accept lower wages because of their illegal status acts to depress wages and working conditions for all workers in that occupation. This in turn makes employment in that sector less attractive to U.S. workers who have other options. The result is a form of circular logic, i.e., the more that illegal aliens are able to take jobs in a sector of the economy, the less attractive the sector becomes to U.S. workers, and the greater appearance of validity to the lie that only illegal aliens are willing to take jobs in the sector. Only by enforcing the immigration law against employment of illegal alien workers can this spiral to the bottom be broken and employers forced to restore wages and working conditions to levels that will attract U.S. workers and legal foreign workers."


Illegal Aliens Taking U.S. Jobs (2013)

This are is the most closely debated. The other factors brought up by RUBICON are right on target.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

As the reply states, there is very little issue with health concerns for immigrants, assimilation is a non- issue and certainly not a national security issue, they are not taking jobs from Americans who want those jobs, and there have been some dishonest law enforcement officers on the borders.

Good post. Thanks for the lynx.

Not sure what you read, but RUBICON had all GREAT points