[quirky3]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

I knew when I read the title of this post that it was a loaded question that would get some very strong responses. It didn't ask "what can we do about Islamic extremist violence"', just "what can we do about Islamic violence?". To say that Jewish and Christian religions are nonviolent is to forget history. Christian history includes the inquisition, the burning of witches in Salem, and anti-semetic pogroms throughout Russia and Eastern Europe for centuries, eventually resulting in the holocaust. As a Jew, I have always questioned the violence in the Old Testament, where a supreme being floods the world and kills almost every living soul. We celebrated Passover in April, in which G-d frees the Jews from Egyptian slavery by sending plagues that culminate in the killing of every Egyptian first born child....innocent children all! One of the ways we built our great country was by the wholesale slaughter of the heathen Indians. So, I think we are in a very fluid time where we are in the process of learning how to balance our constitutional freedoms against our need from safety from terrorists, both of the Muslim extremist variety and the home grown Timothy McVeighs as well as the school and mall mass murderers. They are all terrorists to me, because if something were to happen to one of my grandchildren whether it be a Muslim extremist, a Westboro Baptist church bible thumping nut job, an antigovernment militant, or a mentally deranged teenager with a weapon, my heartache would be the same. Except for a very, very few incidents of antisemitism in my life, I have experienced nothing but love and respect from Christians and Muslims I have known. But, we cannot ignore our histories or we will be in danger of repeating our mistakes.

[senior citizen]

..........

[nitehawk]

what i could never understand is what could cause such a hatered for a religous group to cause a holacost angainst that group. What did the American indians do to cause such a holacost and what did the jewish people in Germany do to cause a holacost. What causes people to be anti-semetic. Why ??

[Golfingnut]

Any person that that is willing to believe and act on their religious teachings is a danger to us all. ALL faiths encourage violence against others if they differ from their specific religion. When it comes to violence, I see very little difference between Christian and any other belief. The less educated the individual, the easier it is to lead them toward acts of violence. Religious leaders of all faiths have used fear to keep the masses obedient to those in power for thousands of years.

[angiefox10]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YOTxammRTw

[senior citizen]

.....

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

All I know is what I've read on the subject with regard to Adolph Hitler , who probably had mental problems, believing that the blonde blue eyed Aryan race was superior to the Jews......and wanting to exterminate them.

I had a Jewish girlfriend in elementary school who actually was blonde with green eyes as were her parents, blonde with blue and green eyes.
So, go figure. They were Russian Jews. The grandparents had come from Russia.

I have another friend up here in Vermont who comes from Polish Jews; again blonde when young, with beautiful blue eyes; ditto for her husband and kids...now all adults.

In our neighborhood now, our dear friend does have dark brown hair and brown eyes but her kids were blonde........she's the one who was born in a concentration camp where her parents were interred by the Nazi's.
All of her parents families were exterminated by the Germans in those camps. Very sad to hear the stories.

Who knows why people are cruel to others. Hitler was a first class nut job.


p.s.
However, I do remember my mother telling me when I was a child that not only Jews were killed during the holocaust, but Catholics and other religious groups as well...........I know Ukrainians were killed. She was Ukrainian. They'd read it in their Ukie newspapers.

Also, all of my Jewish friends have always been ECUMENICAL to a fault.
They came to our Christmas parties and brought tree ornaments.
They invited us to their Chanukah / Hannukah (still can't spell it) parties.
Love those potato latkes with sour cream and apple sauce.

They still send me Christmas cards as do their children.

I will say it again.....all races, all ethnic groups and all religious groups can enrich our lives..........why anyone would want to exterminate others is a mystery to me..........other than what I've read.

I very much agree with your statement..

I too try to respect others and celebrate cultural and religious differences, but I am really scared when people embrace the idea of killing me and the people I love for religious reasons. And, I wish that the people who speak for the Muslim community would denounce the bombings in such a way that I thought they meant it and I believed that they didn't think it was the right thing to do. Every time they were asked on camera that I saw they didn't denounce but talked about how they were being badly treated.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

I knew when I read the title of this post that it was a loaded question that would get some very strong responses. It didn't ask "what can we do about Islamic extremist violence"', just "what can we do about Islamic violence?". To say that Jewish and Christian religions are nonviolent is to forget history. Christian history includes the inquisition, the burning of witches in Salem, and anti-semetic pogroms throughout Russia and Eastern Europe for centuries, eventually resulting in the holocaust. As a Jew, I have always questioned the violence in the Old Testament, where a supreme being floods the world and kills almost every living soul. We celebrated Passover in April, in which G-d frees the Jews from Egyptian slavery by sending plagues that culminate in the killing of every Egyptian first born child....innocent children all! One of the ways we built our great country was by the wholesale slaughter of the heathen Indians. So, I think we are in a very fluid time where we are in the process of learning how to balance our constitutional freedoms against our need from safety from terrorists, both of the Muslim extremist variety and the home grown Timothy McVeighs as well as the school and mall mass murderers. They are all terrorists to me, because if something were to happen to one of my grandchildren whether it be a Muslim extremist, a Westboro Baptist church bible thumping nut job, an antigovernment militant, or a mentally deranged teenager with a weapon, my heartache would be the same. Except for a very, very few incidents of antisemitism in my life, I have experienced nothing but love and respect from Christians and Muslims I have known. But, we cannot ignore our histories or we will be in danger of repeating our mistakes.

Very well put. I went to the University of Denver in 1983-1984 to get a MA in Librarianship and Information Management. There was a small group of Muslims from various Islamic countries who befriended me after I started to hang out with a librarian from the University of Mosul in Iraq named Mohammad Mahmood. He had very different views from some of the other Muslims whose ideas were each different from another and molded by their families, mosques, nations, etc. Mahmood was a brother of one of Saddam Hussein's military leaders so he was a bit zealous in his opinions. I never met his wife for instance as she always had to stay in another room and the Muslim men did not bring their wives to Mahmood's apartment out of respect for his philosophy and religious views.

The Iran-Iraq war was going on at this time and Mahmood would tell me stuff he got from his brother.

After graduation, I started a correspondence with Mahmood who was back in Mosul. We remained friends for a short amount of time as his views on America became more and more radicalized as the war drag on (the Iran-Iraq war). His views became too anti-US and anti-West for me and mine seemed to have become too whatever for his own approach to life.

My point in this is that Muslims come from different countries, regions, families, and have different educational backgrounds. All kinds of forces can mold how anyone thinks and feels. Mahmood's brother was also involved with the Iran-Iraq war I some way as a military leader and these kind of relationships can also have a dramatic affect on how views develop.

Mahmood even started talking about joining the fight against Iran even though he seemed like one of the most gentle of people when I knew him at the University of Denver.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Wrong.

Timothy McVey was a Christian. There have been TONS of Christians who terrorized and killed fellow American citizens because of their skin color, religion, and sexual persuasion. We formed the country by killing savages because we were spreading the teachings of the good book taking their land along the way. Christian missionaries basically stole all the land from the native Hawaiians.

Please don't tell me that Christians are members of the good religion and Muslims are bad members of theirs.

When you asked me who does things ike that? I think you got your answer. We are no better or worse than they are. The only difference is we carry a big stick and they carry a little one.

Monkei ... To argue that the proclivity for bloody violence amongst modern day Christians is no better or worse than the proclivity amongst contemporary Isalamicsts is to literally deny the reality of what everyone's eyes can easily see in the news. Why would you even attempt to make such an obviously inaccurate assertion ??

[nitehawk]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Wrong.

Timothy McVey was a Christian. There have been TONS of Christians who terrorized and killed fellow American citizens because of their skin color, religion, and sexual persuasion. We formed the country by killing savages because we were spreading the teachings of the good book taking their land along the way. Christian missionaries basically stole all the land from the native Hawaiians.

Please don't tell me that Christians are members of the good religion and Muslims are bad members of theirs.

When you asked me who does things ike that? I think you got your answer. We are no better or worse than they are. The only difference is we carry a big stick and they carry a little one.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

what i could never understand is what could cause such a hatered for a religous group to cause a holacost angainst that group. What did the American indians do to cause such a holacost and what did the jewish people in Germany do to cause a holacost. What causes people to be anti-semetic. Why ??

Nite … with respect to your comment about what did the Indians “do” to cause such a holocaust (ie by the Europeans against the Native Americans) … they didn’t do anything. They just ended up on the losing side of history. No one’s fault per se … just the way aggressive humans interact when one culture expands and the opponent retreats or is overwhelmed. My great grandmother was a Cherokee so I’m not being critical of Indians per se.

But, for purposes of historical consistency, do you ever wonder what the Gallic tribes of modern day France “did” to cause the Romans to invade and conquer them during Caesar’s time? For that matter, does it still upset you and strike you as unfair that the Vandals, Goths and various other “barbarian” tribes overran the Roman empire? Or what about when the Romans sacked Carthage to include salting the earth such that it literally vanished from the face of the earth? Just asking …

[gustavo]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

How can you say that? I am 73 years old and never met anyone from the American Christian or Jewish communities who were taught to harm us.

The Crusades killed millions of Muslims in the name of a Christian God. Just to name one example.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by gustavo

The Crusades killed millions of Muslims in the name of a Christian God. Just to name one example.

Gus ... you seem to have a one sided view of history. People always cite the Crusades in the manner you do, but never mention that Islam conquered the Holy Land several centuries before then. In other words, Islam took the area by force from what was then called Christendom, and to some extent the Crusades was a counter reaction.

Also, lots of people where killed ... no doubt about that, but I'm unaware of any reliable historical source that totals the actual combat casualties in "the millions."

While all cultures have their faults, the history of Islam is largely one of conversion by military conquest whereas Christianity largely spread through the Gospel and voluntary conversions. Muhammad was a (very effective) warrior whereas Christ was a pacifist. In other words, there is indeed an obvious difference between the two religions in this regard.

The OP who started this thread asked what can be done about Islamic violence? Given that it's been going strong since 630AD or so, it's a very good question.

[perrjojo]

Many have posted about what Christians and others have done in the PAST and it is true that many atrocities have been committed in the name of whatever God you believe in. I think the issue is...what is happening TODAY and what can we do, if anything, to stem the tide of violence in the name of God.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by gustavo

The Crusades killed millions of Muslims in the name of a Christian God. Just to name one example.

Did I fail to say in THIS DAY AND AGE????? I say what I said again. I don't know of any large group of Christians or Jews out to kill in the NAME of their religion, in this day and age. There are little pockets of extremists like the pastor in Florida that burnt the Quran and the family who ruin funerals of good people. But for the most part people aren't being Christian martyrs much these days. Whereas the more involved in the Muslim faith a person is the more likely they will do what terrorists have done. They believe they are doing the right thing, I will give them that.

There are extreme Christians these days but they don't go around killing people. Don't force them to dance and you are safe.

My uncle always told me, "There are a lot of sincere people in Hell".