[Jimturner]

Originally Posted by AJ32162

Many of those on the left SAY that they don't want to ban or confiscate firearms only because they know that it will never happen. However, if it were feasible, liberals would support a ban or confiscation in droves.

I am certain that is only in your imagination, but I will bite. Where did you come up with that information. LOL

[AJ32162]

Originally Posted by Jimturner

I am certain that is only in your imagination, but I will bite. Where did you come up with that information. LOL

Since I did not quote a source, most people would assume that it is my opinion, don't you think? Or am I not allowed to have one?

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

How is trying to create laws so that fewer mentally ill people have access to FEWER guns threaten the 2nd Amendment? There are already a huge number of guns in the hands of many in the US. No one seems to want to confiscate them. Common sense solutions to the problem of gun violence should not go down to absolutest positions taken by hard liners in either the Republican or the Democratic parties.

Because it would be VERY convenient to have special laws pertaining to limiting gun ownership by mental stability. Very Convenient. Who dictates who might be mentally ill? Say 50-70% of gun related deaths are by suicide. Do you think that someone that might be depressed such as a doctor, lawyer or police officer is going to show warning signs? Guess what, they are in the top death by suicide category. If they had shown signs, then they would have been treated. Wouldn't it be nice and convenient IF we had someone like the IRS that deemed conservatives unfit to handle fire arms?

There's no test to determine the mental stability of one that wishes to own a firearm. You are talking of thousands of dollars just for a decent back ground check. Check on the cost of a security clearance background investigation, and they are NOT without flaw.

You are still avoiding the best of partial solutions. The solution I gave in an earlier post would reduce the amount of deaths. There is nothing that will eliminate all firearm deaths.

Less gun free zones
More concealed carry by certified safe owners
Stricter penalties for gun related crime
Death penalty for use of guns in crime

We already have background checks
We already have safety training available in almost every state.
We already have mandatory background checks at gun shows for all dealer sales
Reducing the amount of guns does not reduce crime or suicide
Automatic weapons are illegal unless Fed permit obtained
Automatic weapons are not being used for mass murders
Type of gun does not reduce crime
Etc, etc, etc.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Jimturner

I am certain that is only in your imagination, but I will bite. Where did you come up with that information. LOL

One example would be a comment by Obama:

"I don't believe people should be able to own guns," Obama told John Lott one day at the University of Chicago Law School.

In 1996, Obama supported a ban on handguns
In 1998, he supported a ban on the sale of all semi-automatic guns
In 2004, he advocated banning gun sales within five miles of a school or park, which would have shut down nearly all gun stores

I consider Obama a liberal. Some consider him to be a socialist also, but that is not the question, right?

[Jima64]

Politicians and normal people refuse to accept that you cannot legislate morals.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Jima64

Politicians and normal people refuse to accept that you cannot legislate morals.

[Steve9930]

There is some very interesting reads in this thread. Further thoughts on my part are these.

You still need to look at the facts:
1) In most of the case there was some one or multiple someone's that knew the shooter had a mental problem. Yet they did nothing or actually enabled the shooter to obtain a weapon. This fact does not point to new laws but to more education and involvement by the people that know the potential shooter. Some one needs to intervene or inform law enforcement. In one case it did show that current background check system needs to be fixed as they missed the red flag. The system needs to be fixed so that the data is consistent and universally available. Background checks are already the law of the land its just that the current system is not very well implemented. I personally do not have a problem with closing the Gun Show Loop Hole. All sales should have a background check and I own guns.

2) Its time to do away with the gun free zones. They do not prevent shootings. That's not to say I want every one to carry a gun without proper training. I believe everyone has the right to protect themselves in their home, in their car, and while in public. They have a constitutional right to use a gun for that protection, and they have a right to use what ever is the current standard of weapon used in the general population. This is not my opinion but the opinion of the Supreme Court. The local governments have the right to set the standards of safety for being able to carry that weapon in public. Again not my opinion but the opinion of the court. Hence the training required to get a concealed Weapons Permit. Now obviously you cannot have grade school students or high school students carrying weapons. But you can arm teachers if they care to take the challenge on and you can provide security guards.

3) It's more then a mental health issue. It's a decay of moral fiber issue. Do you really believe that the violence displayed on TV, Video Games, In Music, lack of parental supervision, the war on religious beliefs, sexual perversion, and the desecration of life before birth does not have a negative effect on society? When you no longer believe you are accountable to a higher power, or you see corruption in society go unanswered will have a positive effect on society? Really?

The answer to this is not in legislation, the answer is with in ourselves, our attitudes toward each other. In the next election take a good hard look at all these candidates and pick the one you believe will have the morality to help this nation not the political connection. Because we need leaders today not political operatives. We need to quit yelling at each other your making my ears hurt.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

It is interesting to see so many varying opinions regarding firearms ownership. To some extent this probably reflects that TV people come from so many varied areas of the country.

THE FACT IS that if I waved a magic wand at 8AM tomorrow and every firearm in the country disappeared except for those held by police and the military, by 8AM the next day there would be thousands of guns in the hands of criminals. They would get them by assaulting police and taking their guns; by burglarizing the homes of police and taking their guns; or by burglarizing military armories and taking their guns.

There would also become a major industry of smuggling guns into the country. Drug runners would become gun runners.

CRIMINALS WILL HAVE GUNS.

There is only a partial solution to the problem of mass shootings at schools. That solution is DO AWAY WITH "GUN FREE ZONES." It is incredibly stupid to let an unbalanced potential mass killer know in advance where he is least likely to encounter armed resistance.

THE BEST WAY TO STOP A BAD GUY WITH A GUN IS WITH A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN.

(Trust me. I have around 40 years in law enforcement, and have been in multiple gun fights.......always won.)

I'd take it one step farther. Just like Switzerland guns would become a requirement on their handling and use taught in the schools, Oh what was that thud, I thing I just heard a liberal faint and hit the floor. People fear what they do not understand.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

I wish this forum had a LIKE button or Thumbs Up & Down!

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

I'd take it one step farther. Just like Switzerland guns would become a requirement on their handling and use taught in the schools, Oh what was that thud, I thing I just heard a liberal faint and hit the floor. People fear what they do not understand.

I believe the Swiss Army carries only knives.

[allus70]

In Switzerland, ammunition cannot be kept at home. It must stay at the shooting range or barracks. Every Swiss male between 18-30 years old has to do three months' military training, and take many more regular refresher courses. The majority of guns are army-issued.
Concealed pistol permits are nearly impossible to come by.
Last year a vote was held on whether the country should end the practice of keeping army-issue firearms at home and tighten over private gun ownership restrictions. While the plans were rejected by 57% of voters, the movement appears to be growing.

[Matzy]

I would like to know how many "self-defenses" with a gun (round about 300 million hand guns in private hands) are in the US every year. Does someone know where to look up? Thanks

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Matzy

I would like to know how many "self-defenses" with a gun (round about 300 million hand guns in private hands) are in the US every year. Does someone know where to look up? Thanks

Are you asking how many times a year has someone defended themselves with a hand gun regardless of the outcome?
Nobody collects that information. It's voluntary and possibly incriminating.
But you know that already.

[mgjim]

I come from a place where gun ownership is fairly high and gun violence is fairly low. There, it isn't an argument between liberals and conservatives; most everyone affirms the right to own guns, either for sport, for protection, or both. The difference, as I see it, is that many of my liberal friends just see gun ownership is a basic right where my conservative friends see gun ownership as a protective issue. I'm not sure how many of them own guns purely for personal protection since most of my liberal friends live in urban areas where crime is high most of my conservative friends live in suburban or rural areas where crime is low. Go figure.

I guess I didn't add anything to this discussion but I thought it was important to note that gun ownership isn't just a political issue.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Matzy

I would like to know how many "self-defenses" with a gun (round about 300 million hand guns in private hands) are in the US every year. Does someone know where to look up? Thanks

There are thousands of "self-defense" cases, but the exact number is always disputed. Some cases are nothing more than brandishing the weapon, and some are cases of actual shootings. How many cases have we seen on TV where a small child saves the day when a burglar breaks into the home? They get the spot light. Or, the small old fragile woman or old gent that stops a car jacking or robbery? These are what make the news, not the everyday self defense. Most involved individuals do not want the publicity for fear of retaliation.

I wonder how many lives are saved when even just one criminal is put down in self defense. Wouldn't that be an interesting study, if it was possible to predict accurately? Think of the money that is saved the taxpayer every time a scumbag is put down permanently.