[Bucco]

Originally Posted by John_W

Probably guilty of something, what would that be? This entire trial is about whether he committed a crime, I don't see any crime committed. TM committed the crime when he hit GZ in the nose and jumped on him while on the ground.

I agree with you about the Judge. In fact, Judge Nelson has tried so hard not to be the next 'Judge Ito', that she has bent over backwards with her rulings favoring the state. Even with that said, I don't see a conviction because it's just not there. Even though the Sanford Police didn't get to finish their investigation, it's like what Sheriff Lee said, they didn't arrest GZ because no charges were justified. However, the outside agitators ran Lee out of office and got the these bogus charges.

I've been watching trials on Courtv or other channels since they first became televised many years ago. Whether it was Scott Peterson or Jodi Arias. Attorney Don West has been one of the best cross-examiners I've seen. His slow and laid-back style allows the listener time for his question to soak in, and makes the respondent answers confirm his point. Just because West gets into confrontations with the Judge doesn't make him bad. Both West and Mark O'Mara are excellent and if I was ever in need of a defense attorney, they would be my first choices.

THANK you for saying very clearly what I have been unsuccessful in doing.

"Even though the Sanford Police didn't get to finish their investigation, it's like what Sheriff Lee said, they didn't arrest GZ because no charges were justified. However, the outside agitators ran Lee out of office and got the these bogus charges."

There is discussion on here about something that has been POLITICAL from the STOPPING OF THE POLICE INVESTIGATION to ignoring the initial investigation. Meetings held to discuss and hear the 911 tapes with only the Martin family and their lawyers present and NO POLICE presence in the office of an elected political official. This trial has been tainted from the beginning.

You mentioned other trials...at least they had a complete, unfettered, uninterrupted non political investigation.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by John_W

Probably guilty of something, what would that be? This entire trial is about whether he committed a crime, I don't see any crime committed. TM committed the crime when he hit GZ in the nose and jumped on him while on the ground.

I agree with you about the Judge. In fact, Judge Nelson has tried so hard not to be the next 'Judge Ito', that she has bent over backwards with her rulings favoring the state. Even with that said, I don't see a conviction because it's just not there. Even though the Sanford Police didn't get to finish their investigation, it's like what Sheriff Lee said, they didn't arrest GZ because no charges were justified. However, the outside agitators ran Lee out of office and got the these bogus charges.

I've been watching trials on Courtv or other channels since they first became televised many years ago. Whether it was Scott Peterson or Jodi Arias. Attorney Don West has been one of the best cross-examiners I've seen. His slow and laid-back style allows the listener time for his question to soak in, and makes the respondent answers confirm his point. Just because West gets into confrontations with the Judge doesn't make him bad. Both West and Mark O'Mara are excellent and if I was ever in need of a defense attorney, they would be my first choices.

The issue of whether following Martin was a crime came up in the charge discussion this morning. When West pointed out that following someone either in a car or by foot was not against state law, the judge asked him to cite the law or case law to support that. Note that she didn't contest that there was no such law but she expected the defense to find a specific citation which states that. Unbelievable! That's like expecting there be a law to specifically state everything that is legal. With rulings like this, she could be a great kangaroo trial judge. Zimmerman is entitled to a fair trial but he certainly is not getting it.

[janmcn]

Judge Nelson rules jury can charge manslaughter and will rule later on third degree felony murder after studying case law. If

convicted of murder three, Zimmerman will face life in prison under 10-20-life rule.

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by collie1228

Zimmerman: Probably guilty of something, but certainly not murder-2. But is it fair to successfully defend against a murder charge and have the judge allow the jury to convict of something less? Not fair in my opinion, but I'll bet it happens.

Judge: Unbelievably biased against Zimmerman and his defense team. She's a disgrace. Her badgering of Zimmerman and Don West yesterday was the last straw for me. Just unbelievable.

Attorney Mark O'Mara: A really good defense attorney.

Attorney Don West: Not so good. Appears to be out of his league.

Prosecutors: Not sure if they believe in their case or not. They sure have been helpful to the defense throughout the trial.

I'll bet that the jury will be allowed to convict on a lesser charge and Zimmerman will get a few years in prison. This way the state may avoid riots in the streets. Isn't that a sad commentary on our justice system?

well that's your opinion. Mine is that this state has such lax hand carry laws.

[Happinow]

I think if we put ourselves in GZ position, we would have done the same thing in the end. His life was in danger and luckily he had a means to defend himself. If I were on the ground with someone beating on me I wouldn't wait to see how long I could take the beating. GZ could have passed put from the blow to the nose or from his head being slammed on the concrete. Then, Trayvon could have taken his gun and shot him. I am going to save myself and answer questions later. GZ had no choice but to shoot TM. I wish it would have never happened.....

[DougB]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Judge Nelson rules jury can charge manslaughter and will rule later on third degree felony murder after studying case law. If

convicted of murder three, Zimmerman will face life in prison under 10-20-life rule.

I believe standard penalty for third degree murder is 10-15 years. I don't think Judge Nelson will consider this since the State is basing it on child abuse.

[USSGompers]

Originally Posted by Monkei

But the law has the term "stand your ground" in it.

I'm sorry but the law does not have "Stand YOUR Ground" in it. This is what it says:

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

As you see, it says 'the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force', etc.

If you were watching the trial today, you would have seen how important it is to have every comma and every period in place.

I'm getting dizzy from all the SPIN!

[Bucco]

Why I do not watch this trial...

"To the extent that the trial has any larger meaning, it is a tale of the left’s desperation to indict contemporary America as a land of rank racism, different in degree, perhaps, but not in kind from 1950s Mississippi. That’s where Emmett Till, to whom Trayvon Martin has often been compared, was brutally murdered for whistling at a white woman."

"But that doesn’t make him a murderer. There was always a perverse wishfulness to the Zimmerman-haters: Look how rotten and backward this country is. Look at what white-Hispanics are capable of. Look at the corruption of our criminal-justice system. Look at this poor child murdered in cold blood.

MSNBC tried and convicted Zimmerman, executed him by firing squad, then propped the body up at the defense table so it could do it all over again. Host Lawrence O’Donnell said Zimmerman shot “a black teenager to death for having done absolutely nothing,” and opined that “I believe what we have here is evidence of a police cover-up.” At a rally, another of the network’s personalities, the Rev. Al Sharpton, compared the injustice done to Martin to the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ — and that may have been one of his cooler-headed moments."

Read more: Opinion: Zimmerman, a morality play that failed - Rich Lowry - POLITICO.com

"George Zimmerman faces life in jail as a jury considers second-degree murder charges against him for killing 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. But thanks to the media he is already sentenced to life in the American public's mind as a racist.

NBC edited a tape of Zimmerman’s call to police as he was following Martin to make him appear to be focused on Martin’s race."

Read more: 'Crackers,' a 'teenage mammy' -- the sorry truth about race and Zimmerman trial | Fox News

"The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked "in a number of ways" by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.

Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.

"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."

Ex-Sanford police chief: Zimmerman probe 'taken away from us' - CNN.com

[twheel]

Originally Posted by Monkei

well that's your opinion. Mine is that this state has such lax hand carry laws.

Its called concealed carry laws . And because you don`t agree with them, Zimmerman is guilty .

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by Happinow

I think if we put ourselves in GZ position, we would have done the same thing in the end. His life was in danger and luckily he had a means to defend himself. If I were on the ground with someone beating on me I wouldn't wait to see how long I could take the beating. GZ could have passed put from the blow to the nose or from his head being slammed on the concrete. Then, Trayvon could have taken his gun and shot him. I am going to save myself and answer questions later. GZ had no choice but to shoot TM. I wish it would have never happened.....

I think most of us would not have put outselves in the situation in the first place.

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by twheel

Its called concealed carry laws . And because you don`t agree with them, Zimmerman is guilty .

I agree with concealed weapons, I have had one since 2001, I just don't like lax laws which allow you to shoot another human being just because you are standing your ground. I don't know if GZ is guilty of a crime, but he is guilty of moral stupidity.

[gomoho]

Originally Posted by Monkei

I agree with concealed weapons, I have had one since 2001, I just don't like lax laws which allow you to shoot another human being just because you are standing your ground. I don't know if GZ is guilty of a crime, but he is guilty of moral stupidity.

And the reason Trayvon didn't run right home when a "creepy ass cracker" was supposedly following him???

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by Monkei

I agree with concealed weapons, I have had one since 2001, I just don't like lax laws which allow you to shoot another human being just because you are standing your ground. I don't know if GZ is guilty of a crime, but he is guilty of moral stupidity.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Monkei

I agree with concealed weapons, I have had one since 2001, I just don't like lax laws which allow you to shoot another human being just because you are standing your ground. I don't know if GZ is guilty of a crime, but he is guilty of moral stupidity.

I think that the law says that you have no obligation to retreat and may stand your ground and use force including deadly force IF YOU REASONABLY BELIEVE IT IS NECESSARY TO AVOIND DEATH OR GREAT BODILY HARM.

It does not say that you can shoot another human being simply because you are standing you ground.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by gomoho

And the reason Trayvon didn't run right home when a "creepy ass cracker" was supposedly following him???

That's the question I haven't heard asked very much. If Trayvon was so in fear of his life and safety, why would he not have simply run as fast as he could, (he was a football player and outstanding athlete, by the way) instead of following Zimmerman back to his car?