Originally Posted by Guest

He is Commander-in-Chief of our armed forces and the leader of this country. Why would he NOT be responsible to some degree when things like this happen? I don't know about you, but when I vote for President of the US, one of my main considerations is his ability and desire to protect this country and it's citizens. Maybe next time around we should be more careful who we choose.

Have you ever, and I really mean ever, actually seen Obama accept responsibility or accountability for anything?

Originally Posted by Guest

Have you ever, and I really mean ever, actually seen Obama accept responsibility or accountability for anything?

Just another BS posting that adds no value to the discussion.

Originally Posted by Guest

Just another BS posting that adds no value to the discussion.

Why not research and then respond ?

Originally Posted by Guest

I agree. But when certain posters blame Obama for everything as their default reasoning, chastise anyone for not agreeing with their views, and the only things in their arsenal are Saul Alinsky, Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers, and the Black Panthers some satire is called for. And the constant mention that this is the worst of times and the end must be near never enhances the chance of a civil discussion.

In my humble opinion, you are so way off base on this.

Example...a question was asked why Alinsky was mentioned. This person obviously had never heard of this person. The question was answered as to the why, and that answer was just ignored and off to more "satire".

Alinsky,Ayers, Rev Wright are people who influenced our President,perhaps the MOST influential, thus in any discussion of why he does anything, they are MORE than pertinent, they are imperatives. I am sure that each of them also had positive influences, but those are the men that he has called "mentors" and confidants and ine case of Alinsky,he was an ardent believer.

I do not recall the Blavk Panthers being mentioned much except when they make their presence known or their actions ignored.

No, your words appear dramatic, but they ring VERY HOLLOW, and I encourage you to share examples, especially on the Black Panthers.

Actually, those examples have true merit, and especially HISTORICAL FACT to substantiate their use, and of corse,the can be overdone, but I think those radical things from the past have been handled smoothly.

Not sure why you use them, as most people object mostly to terms like "stupid", "Nazi" (oft used to discuss the previous admin EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT THE SUBJECT), "BS", "who cares", etc. etc, and ESPECIALLY, which is pretty much the case, when they are used with NOT EVEN ONE SHRED OF CONCRETE FACT, or a link that allowed you to believe whatever you believe.

If someone disapproves of someone that you like, and they supply the WHY they feel that way, MOST people would come back and present their case to oppose, instead of what you call sarcasm.

You are not required to post a rebuttal, but if you are, take some pride and go a bit beyond the wise cracks

As relates to "the worst of times,grow up. Many thought WW2 was the worst, and many still do. We are living in one of the most difficult times ever. The fears of WW2 seem to dwarf, only because of modern day technology; our world is "smaller", the "bad guys" have much more in the way of weaponary, and what was once our biggest defense....our isolated location...is now being taken away from us, not only with weapons, but with pourous borders, it is difficult.

We have here at home more civil strife, more dissolution of family morals, more aggressive minorities (and do not make that racist or any kind of term usually used..it refers to our media,both social and otherwise)..

It IS a very scary time...EXTREMELY. Saying it is not is simply ignoring facts.

I doubt if any of those who feel they are using satire has even read this far, but if you did, please consider the points. Whomever is President will be blamed for much more than they are responsible for, and receive credit for much more than they actually did....just the way it is.

I, for one, read every single post from those who disagree with my point of view. Unfortunately, there are not many; most are of the "satire" type. "Satire" does not fit well into a discussion forum, and I actually do not believe it was even an attempt at satire.

It comes across as someone who does not care to consider one single thing except for that which they pray to. It comes across as someone, as in high school who when they could not compete, they mocked. And be clear, THIS IS NOT A COMPETITION, BUT IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN EXCHANGE OF IDEAS, NOT WISE CRACKS.

I am sure the same thing can be said of the "other side", but I find, or should say found, that very few attempts are made to sway opinion, only to practice oneupmansship ship with words.

I am making this my last post, which certainly brings joy to many, but the same crap is beginning at the same level as it did before, and by the same people. There makes no sense to try to engage in any serious conversation, and to those who still try to mock me personally with emails back and forth and on Topix, let me make your day. I cede ...you win..have fun.

Originally Posted by Guest

First you have to be silent to be silent no more.

Dear Guest: I do not know who you are but your comments speaks to what you are not. You did not address anything negative, positive or refutable about the content of my post other than your aforementioned remarks. You prefer a wisecrack that essentially is telling me to shut up. Your comments are devoid of intelligence,creativity and foresight and add no value to the subject matter of this topic. Essentially you prefer not to be taken seriously. One wonders if you played the class clown while attending high school and have become comfortable in that role? I certainly hope not for your sake.

Political Talk is a forum of opportunity for those members of TOTV that seek views other than theirs in order to have a better assessment of the events that our shaping our nation. There is so much information out there today that it is good to have others speak to what they have heard and read and what they take away from those accounts.

We do not have to agree and in fact through disagreement comes understanding provided those involved keep an open and unbiased mind.

You Dear Guest are not a contributor and you are unfortunately a minor distraction. If you seek attention please find it somewhere less adult than this forum.

Personal Best Regards:

Mr. Best Wishes: I know that were not talking to me, because we were posting at the same time, I think. Were the last two posts yours? Should I be defending myself? I have only been on this board a couple of weeks. I have no idea what happened in the past here. It looks like your are ignoring my post, due to what someone said.

Originally Posted by Guest

Mr. Best Wishes: I know that were not talking to me, because we were posting at the same time, I think. Were the last two posts yours? Should I be defending myself? I have only been on this board a couple of weeks. I have no idea what happened in the past here. It looks like your are ignoring my post, due to what someone said.

Dear Guest: Addressing your Best Wishes let me say that if the shoe fits then... and if it you were the troll I was addressing then there is no defense,as a scorpion's instinct is to sting and a skunk's to stink that's what they are that's what they do

You will always recognize my posts because they end with "Personal Best Regards:" One caveat there is a troll on here that avails himself/herself of my closing . Now I don't know if this troll does it because like a shiny object s/he was attracted to it or because s/he believes s/he can fool people into believing it is me. However like all trolls his/her true colors bleed through their words.

My desire would be meaningful and intelligent dialogue but if I have a mind to it I can play the dirty dozen until I get bored.

Personal Best Regards:

Originally Posted by Guest

In my humble opinion, you are so way off base on this.

Example...a question was asked why Alinsky was mentioned. This person obviously had never heard of this person. The question was answered as to the why, and that answer was just ignored and off to more "satire".

Alinsky,Ayers, Rev Wright are people who influenced our President,perhaps the MOST influential, thus in any discussion of why he does anything, they are MORE than pertinent, they are imperatives. I am sure that each of them also had positive influences, but those are the men that he has called "mentors" and confidants and ine case of Alinsky,he was an ardent believer.

I do not recall the Blavk Panthers being mentioned much except when they make their presence known or their actions ignored.

No, your words appear dramatic, but they ring VERY HOLLOW, and I encourage you to share examples, especially on the Black Panthers.

Actually, those examples have true merit, and especially HISTORICAL FACT to substantiate their use, and of corse,the can be overdone, but I think those radical things from the past have been handled smoothly.

Not sure why you use them, as most people object mostly to terms like "stupid", "Nazi" (oft used to discuss the previous admin EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT THE SUBJECT), "BS", "who cares", etc. etc, and ESPECIALLY, which is pretty much the case, when they are used with NOT EVEN ONE SHRED OF CONCRETE FACT, or a link that allowed you to believe whatever you believe.

If someone disapproves of someone that you like, and they supply the WHY they feel that way, MOST people would come back and present their case to oppose, instead of what you call sarcasm.

You are not required to post a rebuttal, but if you are, take some pride and go a bit beyond the wise cracks

As relates to "the worst of times,grow up. Many thought WW2 was the worst, and many still do. We are living in one of the most difficult times ever. The fears of WW2 seem to dwarf, only because of modern day technology; our world is "smaller", the "bad guys" have much more in the way of weaponary, and what was once our biggest defense....our isolated location...is now being taken away from us, not only with weapons, but with pourous borders, it is difficult.

We have here at home more civil strife, more dissolution of family morals, more aggressive minorities (and do not make that racist or any kind of term usually used..it refers to our media,both social and otherwise)..

It IS a very scary time...EXTREMELY. Saying it is not is simply ignoring facts.

I doubt if any of those who feel they are using satire has even read this far, but if you did, please consider the points. Whomever is President will be blamed for much more than they are responsible for, and receive credit for much more than they actually did....just the way it is.

I, for one, read every single post from those who disagree with my point of view. Unfortunately, there are not many; most are of the "satire" type. "Satire" does not fit well into a discussion forum, and I actually do not believe it was even an attempt at satire.

It comes across as someone who does not care to consider one single thing except for that which they pray to. It comes across as someone, as in high school who when they could not compete, they mocked. And be clear, THIS IS NOT A COMPETITION, BUT IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN EXCHANGE OF IDEAS, NOT WISE CRACKS.

I am sure the same thing can be said of the "other side", but I find, or should say found, that very few attempts are made to sway opinion, only to practice oneupmansship ship with words.

I am making this my last post, which certainly brings joy to many, but the same crap is beginning at the same level as it did before, and by the same people. There makes no sense to try to engage in any serious conversation, and to those who still try to mock me personally with emails back and forth and on Topix, let me make your day. I cede ...you win..have fun.

Saul Alinsky was a man who believed fervently in the underdog and in how to make the classes of people more equal. He also was a very kind man who would give the shirt off his back to a less fortunate being. I admired him.

Originally Posted by Guest

Saul Alinsky was a man who believed fervently in the underdog and in how to make the classes of people more equal. He also was a very kind man who would give the shirt off his back to a less fortunate being. I admired him.

Uh-huh...just like Obama and Clinton would have you fall for!!!

Originally Posted by Guest

Saul Alinsky was a man who believed fervently in the underdog and in how to make the classes of people more equal. He also was a very kind man who would give the shirt off his back to a less fortunate being. I admired him.

He wanted everyone to be equal. He had no end game however and really wanted no governing bodies of any kind. He believed that the people could work it out.

Why people fear his process on a national level and everything he wrote was from the perspective of LOCAL, is because inherent in his beliefs is attack and make enemies...that was the crux of most of what he preached. Attack them, make them hate you, etc. THAT is what make people nervous on a national stage and if you restrict your understanding of Alinsky to this forum without doing some reading, it is not easy to understand.

Bottom line...he DID believe in helping the downtrodden...he DID believe in overthrowing the power to be, but never offered any replacement. I have always felt he really was an anarchist.


I suggest everyone read his writings. A very interesting read, but warning to you all, he uses very non political correct language :

"You are white, native-born, and Protestant. Do you like people? You like your family, your friends, some of your business associates (not too many of them), and some of your neighbors. Do you like Catholics, Irish, Italians, Jews, Poles, Mexicans, Negroes, Puerto Ricans, and Chinese? Do you regard them with the warm feeling of fellow human beings or with a cold contempt symbolized in Papists, Micks, Wops, Kikes, Hunkies, Greasers, *******, Spics, and Chinks? If you are one of those people who think of people in these derogatory terms, then you don't like people."

Reveille for Radicals by Saul Alinsky

I have read his works. I have done a bit of research. I admire his feeling for downtrodden. I detest his feeling that there must be hate involved. I detest his not wanting to work within, but to destroy and he is pretty clear on that stff.

Originally Posted by Guest

In my humble opinion, you are so way off base on this.

Example...a question was asked why Alinsky was mentioned. This person obviously had never heard of this person. The question was answered as to the why, and that answer was just ignored and off to more "satire".

Alinsky,Ayers, Rev Wright are people who influenced our President,perhaps the MOST influential, thus in any discussion of why he does anything, they are MORE than pertinent, they are imperatives. I am sure that each of them also had positive influences, but those are the men that he has called "mentors" and confidants and ine case of Alinsky,he was an ardent believer.

I do not recall the Blavk Panthers being mentioned much except when they make their presence known or their actions ignored.

No, your words appear dramatic, but they ring VERY HOLLOW, and I encourage you to share examples, especially on the Black Panthers.

Actually, those examples have true merit, and especially HISTORICAL FACT to substantiate their use, and of corse,the can be overdone, but I think those radical things from the past have been handled smoothly.

Not sure why you use them, as most people object mostly to terms like "stupid", "Nazi" (oft used to discuss the previous admin EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT THE SUBJECT), "BS", "who cares", etc. etc, and ESPECIALLY, which is pretty much the case, when they are used with NOT EVEN ONE SHRED OF CONCRETE FACT, or a link that allowed you to believe whatever you believe.

If someone disapproves of someone that you like, and they supply the WHY they feel that way, MOST people would come back and present their case to oppose, instead of what you call sarcasm.

You are not required to post a rebuttal, but if you are, take some pride and go a bit beyond the wise cracks

As relates to "the worst of times,grow up. Many thought WW2 was the worst, and many still do. We are living in one of the most difficult times ever. The fears of WW2 seem to dwarf, only because of modern day technology; our world is "smaller", the "bad guys" have much more in the way of weaponary, and what was once our biggest defense....our isolated location...is now being taken away from us, not only with weapons, but with pourous borders, it is difficult.

We have here at home more civil strife, more dissolution of family morals, more aggressive minorities (and do not make that racist or any kind of term usually used..it refers to our media,both social and otherwise)..

It IS a very scary time...EXTREMELY. Saying it is not is simply ignoring facts.

I doubt if any of those who feel they are using satire has even read this far, but if you did, please consider the points. Whomever is President will be blamed for much more than they are responsible for, and receive credit for much more than they actually did....just the way it is.

I, for one, read every single post from those who disagree with my point of view. Unfortunately, there are not many; most are of the "satire" type. "Satire" does not fit well into a discussion forum, and I actually do not believe it was even an attempt at satire.

It comes across as someone who does not care to consider one single thing except for that which they pray to. It comes across as someone, as in high school who when they could not compete, they mocked. And be clear, THIS IS NOT A COMPETITION, BUT IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN EXCHANGE OF IDEAS, NOT WISE CRACKS.

I am sure the same thing can be said of the "other side", but I find, or should say found, that very few attempts are made to sway opinion, only to practice oneupmansship ship with words.

I am making this my last post, which certainly brings joy to many, but the same crap is beginning at the same level as it did before, and by the same people. There makes no sense to try to engage in any serious conversation, and to those who still try to mock me personally with emails back and forth and on Topix, let me make your day. I cede ...you win..have fun.

Just like the Terminator, you'll be back.

Originally Posted by Guest

He wanted everyone to be equal. He had no end game however and really wanted no governing bodies of any kind. He believed that the people could work it out.

Why people fear his process on a national level and everything he wrote was from the perspective of LOCAL, is because inherent in his beliefs is attack and make enemies...that was the crux of most of what he preached. Attack them, make them hate you, etc. THAT is what make people nervous on a national stage and if you restrict your understanding of Alinsky to this forum without doing some reading, it is not easy to understand.

Bottom line...he DID believe in helping the downtrodden...he DID believe in overthrowing the power to be, but never offered any replacement. I have always felt he really was an anarchist.


I suggest everyone read his writings. A very interesting read, but warning to you all, he uses very non political correct language :

"You are white, native-born, and Protestant. Do you like people? You like your family, your friends, some of your business associates (not too many of them), and some of your neighbors. Do you like Catholics, Irish, Italians, Jews, Poles, Mexicans, Negroes, Puerto Ricans, and Chinese? Do you regard them with the warm feeling of fellow human beings or with a cold contempt symbolized in Papists, Micks, Wops, Kikes, Hunkies, Greasers, *******, Spics, and Chinks? If you are one of those people who think of people in these derogatory terms, then you don't like people."

Reveille for Radicals by Saul Alinsky

I have read his works. I have done a bit of research. I admire his feeling for downtrodden. I detest his feeling that there must be hate involved. I detest his not wanting to work within, but to destroy and he is pretty clear on that stff.

Thank you for this post. It makes me want to do more reading on my own about Alinsky although I am familiar with him on the surface.

What I can't piece together in my mind is exactly what you state in the last part of your post. How can someone admire a person who, although he may feel for the downtrodden and want to work toward raising them up, supports doing so by way of destruction and hate? That puzzles me to no end and is in total conflict with my upbringing and moral stance. I know that you were not saying you admire him, just his feelings for helping the downtrodden, but the poster to whom you were responding to seems to admire Alinsky and speaks of him as a kind person. I would tend to be very distrustful of someone like that because his actions do not match his words. A kind person walks what he talks and is kind to all. His teachings sound to me that by following them it makes you the judge - who to be kind to and who not to be. Confusing to say the least.

Again, thank you - I will be reading more on my own to try to come to an understanding, but it seems to me to be a "front" of kindness and generosity only to bring about an ulterior motive.

Originally Posted by Guest

In my humble opinion, you are so way off base on this.

Example...a question was asked why Alinsky was mentioned. This person obviously had never heard of this person. The question was answered as to the why, and that answer was just ignored and off to more "satire".

Alinsky,Ayers, Rev Wright are people who influenced our President,perhaps the MOST influential, thus in any discussion of why he does anything, they are MORE than pertinent, they are imperatives. I am sure that each of them also had positive influences, but those are the men that he has called "mentors" and confidants and ine case of Alinsky,he was an ardent believer.

I do not recall the Blavk Panthers being mentioned much except when they make their presence known or their actions ignored.

No, your words appear dramatic, but they ring VERY HOLLOW, and I encourage you to share examples, especially on the Black Panthers.

Actually, those examples have true merit, and especially HISTORICAL FACT to substantiate their use, and of corse,the can be overdone, but I think those radical things from the past have been handled smoothly.

Not sure why you use them, as most people object mostly to terms like "stupid", "Nazi" (oft used to discuss the previous admin EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT THE SUBJECT), "BS", "who cares", etc. etc, and ESPECIALLY, which is pretty much the case, when they are used with NOT EVEN ONE SHRED OF CONCRETE FACT, or a link that allowed you to believe whatever you believe.

If someone disapproves of someone that you like, and they supply the WHY they feel that way, MOST people would come back and present their case to oppose, instead of what you call sarcasm.

You are not required to post a rebuttal, but if you are, take some pride and go a bit beyond the wise cracks

As relates to "the worst of times,grow up. Many thought WW2 was the worst, and many still do. We are living in one of the most difficult times ever. The fears of WW2 seem to dwarf, only because of modern day technology; our world is "smaller", the "bad guys" have much more in the way of weaponary, and what was once our biggest defense....our isolated location...is now being taken away from us, not only with weapons, but with pourous borders, it is difficult.

We have here at home more civil strife, more dissolution of family morals, more aggressive minorities (and do not make that racist or any kind of term usually used..it refers to our media,both social and otherwise)..

It IS a very scary time...EXTREMELY. Saying it is not is simply ignoring facts.

I doubt if any of those who feel they are using satire has even read this far, but if you did, please consider the points. Whomever is President will be blamed for much more than they are responsible for, and receive credit for much more than they actually did....just the way it is.

I, for one, read every single post from those who disagree with my point of view. Unfortunately, there are not many; most are of the "satire" type. "Satire" does not fit well into a discussion forum, and I actually do not believe it was even an attempt at satire.

It comes across as someone who does not care to consider one single thing except for that which they pray to. It comes across as someone, as in high school who when they could not compete, they mocked. And be clear, THIS IS NOT A COMPETITION, BUT IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN EXCHANGE OF IDEAS, NOT WISE CRACKS.

I am sure the same thing can be said of the "other side", but I find, or should say found, that very few attempts are made to sway opinion, only to practice oneupmansship ship with words.

I am making this my last post, which certainly brings joy to many, but the same crap is beginning at the same level as it did before, and by the same people. There makes no sense to try to engage in any serious conversation, and to those who still try to mock me personally with emails back and forth and on Topix, let me make your day. I cede ...you win..have fun.

This is a very good post and I, for one, am sorry to see you go. If you are getting hateful emails I think the administration should block those posters from this forum and maybe TOTV as a whole. That should NOT be allowed! I am continually amazed at the ignorance, immaturity, and rudeness of some of these posters. Thankfully I have met many good, kind, caring people in The Villages over the years, because as someone who has not yet moved there full-time, I would be nervous about making that move if I was basing my decision by what I see on this forum.

Please ADMIN do something about these personal attacks!! By allowing this to go on, it does a great disservice to the community as a whole.

Back to our post ref our Marines the white house didn't even fly the flag at half mast for their lives but did for Nelson Mandela what a disgrace this President is.

Originally Posted by Guest

Back to our post ref our Marines the white house didn't even fly the flag at half mast for their lives but did for Nelson Mandela what a disgrace this President is.

Did you put YOUR flag at half-staff?