Originally Posted by cologal

I believe...I could probably find, I asked you if you would read a link to a Huffington Post. Your response was clearly in the negative.

Now that I have read your link I expect you to give the same respect to mine.

I have actually read the Huffington post on Alinsky, and have read all the positives that you gain from it...for example....Hillary wrote her college thesis on him (BUT THAT WAS buried while in the WH...true story..wonder why)...how many of his points have been used by both sides (true)....of some good that this man actually did (true)
!

I have read both sides of the coin....heard from those who think he was a fine man, and I also read President Obama's autobiography (BOTH OF THEM) and a lot in the Chicago paper about him (BEFORE he was national)...his relationship with ACORN and others...his beliefs (before he became national)....his ability to use the Alinsky mantra succesfully in commnity organizing and actually teaching it. I have researched both sides of this story totally and the editorial pretty much captures the essence.

For your information, my sources are not all on one side. I am not what you think I am or as you refer to as "one of my people". I was not a supporter of the Republican ticket in 2008 and made that clear. I simply know what we have elected and as I said during the campaign...that election coupled with the congressional leadership we have right now is deadly !

Originally Posted by Bucco

THEN...

Please read the entire article I posted on Alinsky !!

I did read the entire post you sent. Am I happy with everything Obama is does.... That would be a NO. He clearly was not my first choice.

Am I happy with his Court choice...well it has to be better than the ones W appointed. I am center left. Or if you prefer a Reagan Democrat. I vote for did vote for Repubs this time, at the local level. I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. Although probably not as conservative as some. I'm big on fairness.

Originally Posted by Bucco

THEN,,,,


Read about their involvement in the mortgage crisis and the pressure they put on banks, etc to make those wonderful loans !

THEN...


Read about their relationship with congress and Barney Franks latest efforts to open the doors for money !

THEN...

Read about the banks who give them money; banks that we bailed out !

Look...the financial crisis was NOT caused by ACORN pressuring banks to give poor people loans. That is simply untrue. In large part it was due to greed and the deregulation of the banking industry. I just read an article about the 3rd wave of foreclosures, these are not subprime but brought on by layoffs.

Explain to me why it is ok for Wall Street to get their bonuses, by contract, but the UAW has to totally modify their contracts and give back pay and benefits. Why is it my company when my pay is tied to the company performance we didn't get raises this year but the managers got their bonus?

Let have a discussion about real issues.

Originally Posted by bimmertl

Keep reading.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/op...ubed.html?_r=1

I read and saw this:

The story involved allegations that Barack Obama’s campaign, in league with Acorn, a left-leaning community activist group, was guilty of technical violations of campaign finance law. Evidence supplied by the source could not be verified. Even if the story had panned out, it is hard to see how any editor could have regarded it as momentous enough to change an election in which the Republicans were saddled with an unpopular war and an economic meltdown.

If the evidence could not be verified they should not have run the story.

Originally Posted by cologal

Somebody has to prove to me that ACORN is getting millions from the stimulus package. For what?

Au contraire mes amis, au contraire.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...illion-federa/

COLOGAL - I think the flag is up and it is definitely waving.

Originally Posted by cologal

In just a short search the ACORN thing only seems to be reported by websites with a conservative bent which then point to FOX News.

Do you think that is because the liberal media has not heard of it?

Yoda

A member of the loyal opposition

Originally Posted by Irish Rover

COLOGAL - I think the flag is up and it is definitely waving.

Not on my side!

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

Au contraire mes amis, au contraire.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...illion-federa/

To my knowledge NOBODY has said they GOT funds. What has been said is that they are eligible to receive funds and if you read the legislation put forth by Barney Frank to allow those indicted to get funds to whom do you think that might be addressed ?

Also, they HAVE received funds from banks involved in the TARP bailout !

Originally Posted by cologal

Look...the financial crisis was NOT caused by ACORN pressuring banks to give poor people loans. That is simply untrue. In large part it was due to greed and the deregulation of the banking industry. I just read an article about the 3rd wave of foreclosures, these are not subprime but brought on by layoffs.

Explain to me why it is ok for Wall Street to get their bonuses, by contract, but the UAW has to totally modify their contracts and give back pay and benefits. Why is it my company when my pay is tied to the company performance we didn't get raises this year but the managers got their bonus?

Let have a discussion about real issues.

I never said that the crisis was CAUSED by ACORN.(AND I never heard anyone on here or anywhere else say what you are saying)...I said they were very involved in pressuring banks to make those loans...now, that is a fact that is verifiable. Of course they did not cause it...they are an organization USED to advance causes of this sort..the fact that they pressured banks to make these loans is simply fact..not spin !

I am not sure why you bring up Wall St in a conversation about ACORN, except if you are going to discuss the bus trips they had to view the homes of those who worked there. This thread is about ACORN..not Wall St...of course everyone knows about the abuse but not sure how that justifies anything else !

I think ACORN is a REAL ISSUE....just explain to me why Barney Frank introduced the legislation he did ? WHO do you think he had in mind..allowing those under indictment to get funds ?

Originally Posted by Bucco

I never said that the crisis was CAUSED by ACORN.(AND I never heard anyone on here or anywhere else say what you are saying)...I said they were very involved in pressuring banks to make those loans...now, that is a fact that is verifiable. Of course they did not cause it...they are an organization USED to advance causes of this sort..the fact that they pressured banks to make these loans is simply fact..not spin !

I am not sure why you bring up Wall St in a conversation about ACORN, except if you are going to discuss the bus trips they had to view the homes of those who worked there. This thread is about ACORN..not Wall St...of course everyone knows about the abuse but not sure how that justifies anything else !

I think ACORN is a REAL ISSUE....just explain to me why Barney Frank introduced the legislation he did ? WHO do you think he had in mind..allowing those under indictment to get funds ?

Ok ACORN used pressure to get banks to make loans to poor people. For now I give on that point. So how many loans and what percentage effect did those loans have on the current home mortgage crisis? 500,000 loans? 1 million loans? Then tell me what effect did the totally untrue grade AAA rating on those loans bundles had?

Now do you think it is correct for the Wall Street guys to get a contractual bonus but the UWA has totally restructure the current contract. Its pretty much a yes or no answer.

Originally Posted by cologal

Ok ACORN used pressure to get banks to make loans to poor people. For now I give on that point. So how many loans and what percentage effect did those loans have on the current home mortgage crisis? 500,000 loans? 1 million loans? Then tell me what effect did the totally untrue grade AAA rating on those loans bundles had?

Now do you think it is correct for the Wall Street guys to get a contractual bonus but the UWA has totally restructure the current contract. Its pretty much a yes or no answer.

#1. How many loans and what percentage ? I have no idea and you are still missing the point. It is the body of work and the mission of this group that is being discussed along with the Alinsky techniques being used. Where they the only bad guys in this situation...certainly not, but you cannot defend a group because of what another group has done.

#2. I am not qualified to give you an answer on your question about the "Wall St guys" and the UAW. The UAW as I understand it has not been a prince in the current negotiations and has been living pretty high on the hog.....unemployed but you still get paid if you show up and play cards all day...pretty good deal ! And as I understand it, the UAW will own part of the companies out in Detroit. No good guys but cannonizing the UAW I cant or wont do !

I respect your opinion but you simply will not open your eyes to what has happened in this country since January and what is happening. You seem to think I come at this from only one angle, and that is far from true. You remember the campaign even BEFORE Obama got the nomination I was saying the exact same thing...and predicting what would happen and it is. I am not anti Democrat or pro Republican...but I am AWARE that our new President was NEVER vetted for whatever reason and should have been. Had he been, perhaps your canidate H Clinton would have been the nominee.

I will predict in a few years you will be reading books bashing the current media for their handling of this past campaign. And it continues in the administration as all he has to do is talk pretty and we fall over ourselves EVEN if what he says is not true, the same as the previous administration or whatever...as long as he says it so pretty !

I have never attacked him personally and do not now. I simply vetted him myself and I have been pretty consistent in what I say and he has been pretty consistent in what he does. And it will continue ! His idealogy is just what I have been saying.....and others that you never will read in any MSM.

Remember Rev Wright ? Well, as a supporter of H Clinton..let me ask you...if something like that had come out about her....ie., TWENTYYEARS with someone who she called her mentor, etc...do you think that he simply saying very nicely...well, gee....that is not the same guy I counseled with or met with or whatever and I am simply saying goodbye. Do you think the media would have handled that situation had it been Clinton any differently ? Do you think if she were affliated with a group like ACORN it would have come out differently ? Would the NYTIMES had sat on that story ?

I am typing a lot of words but I know you take your positions seriously and that is great and you should hold onto what you believe....but I will also and I have seen not one thing to dissuade me but others (perhaps you also) have every excuse in the books no matter how much builds up.

Enough said....have a good evening !

Originally Posted by cologal

Trust me....I was NOT an Obama fan....but a really serious Hillary girl. I certainly did not blindly vote for him. What I should have voted for Sarah Pallin?.... She stands for just about everything I am against. So some times it just come down to the lesser of not my choices.

When Obama dissolves the Congress and runs up the socialist flag then I will believe it. That will probably happen right after Sean Hannitity finally get waterboarded for charity...as he said he would some time ago.

I have read this whole thread and one thing stands out (actually quite a few) that I remembered after I took a little break.
Clologal's statement "She (Palin) stands for just about everything I am against"
Ms. if that statement is indeed true, I am sorry, but with good conscience, I don't think I could ever take or understand any more posts that you record here. Sure, she is not perfect (who is?) but you are against everything she stands for????
Unbelievable. I'm sorry moderator...I know I shouldn't have posted this but felt I had to. Feel free to delete my post and I will not harbor ill feelings.
As for Clologal...Maybe if we meet we could like each other as I do not know you personally. Friends should not talk politics if they want to keep good feelings. But, that statement about Mrs. Palin sure does say alot about someone's outlook on life, huh?
Keedy