Originally Posted by Sally Jo

Saratogaman--- Of course there is climate change. Always and forever. Sarah Palin believes in climate change, as does everybody, but she does not believe it is man made.

Sally, if this is your position, are you saying you don't think "man" has contributed and accelerated it either? And what are your thoughts on air pollution?

Chels--- Yes, I think man can pollute the air, to a degree. I know you're from Chicago. Remember how horrible Gary, IN was, years ago? Becasue of the mills you couldn't see the sky. Steps were taken and it is much better now. What I don't agree with is that man can cause seas to rise etc.etc. I think it is all about control, as is the health care bill. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Sally Jo

Chels--- Yes, I think man can pollute the air, to a degree. I know you're from Chicago. Remember how horrible Gary, IN was, years ago? Becasue of the mills you couldn't see the sky. Steps were taken and it is much better now. What I don't agree with is that man can cause seas to rise etc.etc. I think it is all about control, as is the health care bill. Just my opinion.

Sally you say it so well. God bless people like you who have the ability to think without being influenced by idiology.

Originally Posted by saratogaman

It has been several days since I asked for substantive information from those of you who claim to debunk the scientific claim that there is global warming...global climate change...even Sarah Palin acknowledges it.
Why are you so silent?

Here are two very honest takes on climate change. The first is an article in the November 30, 2009 WSJ titled, “The Climate Science Isn’t Settled” by Richard S. Lindzen, Sloan Professor of Meteorology at MIT.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...917025400.html

This second article is a slide presentation detailing the, “Thirty Five Inconvenient Truths”, in Al Gore’s movies that have come to be accepted the ‘overwhelming scientific consensus.’

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/mo...oreerrors.html

If you would like further information, I can provide it, including open statements of skepticism by a Nobel Prize winning physicist. I would have posted sooner, but had not been following this thread.

global warming is as bad for us as they say health care reform is good for us!!!!

btk

Given how eager the news is to tear down people who are 'on top', I'm surprised many of these connections don't get more press. I mean, they were all over Clinton - so it can't really be a Democrat/GOP thing.

Originally Posted by saratogaman

I'll grant you the peerage point but neither you nor Monckton offer precise info that claims to scientifically say that there is no global warming going on.
What about those island nations that are seeing their above-water land disappear? Who can disprove what they are experiencing?
Forget the politics...what about what is actually happening?

I's been more than a few days since I first replied to your question and I decided to add a little bit more evidence.

Real data concerning such things as warming and rising sea level has been requested. First, let’s deal with warming. The best source of data from a consistently measured source is the US NCDC Annual Climate Review. This source provides annual data including average annual temperature for the United States. Source site- http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/...s-summary.html

Even a casual perusal of this site with show two significant warming periods:

The first from 1895 to 1934 - a rise of 4.8 degrees Fahrenheit.
The second from 1978 to 1998 – a rise of 4.2 degrees Fahrenheit.

Both these periods had a high temperature of 55.0 degrees Fahrenheit.

The first cooling period went from 1994 to 1978 – a drop of 4 degrees Fahrenheit.
The second cooling period began in 1998 and through 2008 has shown a drop of 2 degrees Fahrenheit to 53.0 degrees. This is only 0.2 degrees above the 20th century average of 52.8 degrees.

The second subject is “What about those island nations that are seeing their above-water land disappear?” To look at this objectively, I again go back to data provided by The National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, NOAA.

The data from 149 stations around the world is summarized at http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/psmsl_ind..._stations.html The period of time measured varies from a few decades to well over 150 years. The locations go from Reykjavik, Iceland to Argentine Islands, Antarctica hitting 147 points around the world in between. Some of the stations show sea level rising and some show it dropping. This nasty old world of ours insists on variation over time.

Anyone is welcome to go to the source documents and examine them and then draw conclusions, however, after do a spreadsheet analysis of the data, I found the average rate of sea level rise to be 2.42” per century. This is hardly a disaster in the making.

Is our globe warming at this time? I believe, though am not sure, the answer is yes. We are certainly warmer than we were in the 18th century when the East River regularly froze over. We are certainly cooler than we were when the Vikings established colonies on Greenland and supported an agrarian life style there.

Is there any evidence that the causes of this warming, in contrast to others that have gone before it, are anthropogenic? In MYHO the answer is to this is an emphatic NO!
What we need to fear is not global warming, but global cooling. Ice ages have dominated the history of the earth with for every 15 to 20 thousand years of warming, such as we enjoy now, there were centuries of cold. In severe cases, this resulted in ‘ice-ball’ earth. The last ice age came to an end about 18,00 years ago when the ice above what is now Chicago was over three miles deep. Imagine the impact on our ‘bread basket’ of this vast cold and then imagine how many of us could exist in this bare earth with only ice and desert.

Just my thoughts. I’d love to hear positions supporting anthropogenic global warming, and/or anthropogenic climate change, backed up with real scientific data rather the scare mongering tactics now employed. Can anyone supply this, please?

I wish I had the source data - but I was watching a report that was done on atmosperic temperatures in the aftermath of 9/11 - when there were no planes in the sky other than a few military aircraft. If I remember correctly, there was a measurable amount of cooling when the airplanes weren't contributing to atmospheric pollution - which then went "back to normal" when the planes started flying again.

So, again, there are even more factors to consider and we DON'T have all the answers.

Originally Posted by djplong

I wish I had the source data - but I was watching a report that was done on atmosperic temperatures in the aftermath of 9/11 - when there were no planes in the sky other than a few military aircraft. If I remember correctly, there was a measurable amount of cooling when the airplanes weren't contributing to atmospheric pollution - which then went "back to normal" when the planes started flying again.

So, again, there are even more factors to consider and we DON'T have all the answers.

I quite agree- unfortunately the source data for 1999-2001 has been redacted by NOAA. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/index.php

While we do not have all the information, we do know that last year and by projections this year are back to the 1900-2000 mean. No'global warming' here. We do know that total sea ice area remains unchanged over the last thirty years per NASA reports and we do know that sea levels have not been rising at a rate above previous centuries. The question remains, "How long will we continue to listen to special interest groups and ignore the scientific data?"

BTW, Saratogaman I am still waiting for some data supporting your beliefs. I have provided a great deal of data supporting skepticism, but have seen no data that justifies the religious fervor of the climate change believers. Please spare us rants from Al Gore, the Island nations, etc. Just give us the data.

Did anyone see Beck's appearance on Leno from Friday night? I was, to say the least, surprised.