Originally Posted by SteveZ

And the system may be the greatest thing since sliced bread in the right set of circumstances.

Let's not forget that Canada's total population is approximately 5 million less than California's and approximately 10% of the USA's. Canada and the USA are within 0.3% of the same land mass size, with over 80% of Canada's population within 100 miles of the Canada/USA border.

So, an effort in the USA to mirror Canada's social medicine system would immediately involve setting up a structure at least ten times larger than Canada's. Such an undertaking would be monstrous and not happen overnight. In fact, it may take at least as long as Canada took (1946-1961), as Canada started the system one-province-at-a-time. The logic of that is self-evident, as each province was able to learn from the successes and failures of the previous province, making the system more efficient each time. In a comparable population setting, it would be like each California county establishing a medical care system one-at-a-time, with the whole state eventually tied together.

So, do we really think we are smarter, better capable, and more efficient than our Northern Neighbors that we can just set up such a system nationally from the get-go and have it work even half-right? Common sense says start off with a small state (e.g., one of the Dakota's, Rhode Island, etc.) based on state desire to be the pilot program, give them grant money to make it work, and then expand the network state-by-state if this is the type of care we want. From a program management standpoint, anything else is doomed to be fraught with cost overruns, fraud and mismanagement. As lives are at stake, doesn't it make more sense that if we really do this, we learn from how others have done it and emulate what was considered successful?

If it took Canada 15 years to set up such a program to handle a population 90% smaller than the USA's, what makes us think we can do it with the stroke of a federal pen and the "wisdom" of Congress? Talk about arrogance!

Very good,Steve. Again you bring valuable information to to light, especially to this abyss called socialized health care. I think if information like this was dispersed through media sources, people would realize that these proposals are not some kind of magic solutions.

Originally Posted by dklassen

Haven't we in fact already tried it in one state?

Mass. healthcare reform is failing us.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...is_failing_us/

We must let Congress know we want improved access to affordable healthcare for all, not more expensive private health insurance we can't afford to use when we are sick. Massachusetts healthcare reform fails on all five Institute of Medicine criteria. Congress should not make it a model for the nation.

Susanne L. King, M.D., practices in Berkshire County.

Amen.......

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Did any of you even hear what this lady had to say??? Guess you're too busy Obama Bashing.

Interesting comment on "Obama Bashing" !

I can understand how you feel that way..honestly; what is interesting that you could not understand when other folks complained about "Bush bashing" (which was VERY VERY PERSONAL) !!!

Originally Posted by dklassen

It's irrelevant. So what. I'm glad she's happy and received good care in her case. Many in Canada think their health care stinks.

I was responding to Ooper's post "ask anyone from Canada". I've had 50 years experience with the system. I'll just bet I know more Canadians than Ooper and dklassen, and most are very satisfied with their health care. If I'd bashed Canada's healthcare system, I don't think dlassen would have dismissed my comments as irrelevant!

Having said that, I do agree that this is not the time to consider implementing such a huge and expensive change in the US. I sincerely doubt that most Americans will readily accept the high taxes necessary to support such a system, especially in today's economic climate.

I wouldn't be surprised if this health care bill dies a quiet death, and goes away for now, just like the last one (93?). Most agree that health care and Social Security both need change/reform, but both are too politically sensistive to get much done. Maybe next time around?

Originally Posted by dklassen

It really goes back to one simple FACT.

Social Security is bankrupt.
Medicare is bankrupt.
The government itself is basically bankrupt.
Freddie and Fannie are a total disaster.
Our public schools, most of them are a total disaster.
Mass. healthcare reform is a disaster.
The list goes on and on.

So tell me folks. What on God’s green earth makes you think government can effectively improve on and run our healthcare system?

Add cap-n-tax to this mess and you have an epic financial disaster for all but the most rich in this country. And when we go after what they have left they will simply hunker down and sit on their money. That means less jobs. At almost 10% unemployment and still climbing are less jobs really a good thing?

Think people think.

All very good points All along we are being told none of this will raise our taxes. Only for the very rich.

I was responding to Ooper's post "ask anyone from Canada". I've had 50 years experience with the system. I'll just bet I know more Canadians than Ooper and dklassen, and most are very satisfied with their health care. If I'd bashed Canada's healthcare system, I don't think dlassen would have dismissed my comments as irrelevant!

I wonder if maybe some of the provinces may be better then others. I learned today that it took 15 years and at province at a time, to get the system complete. Do you enjoy the health care, here in the States??

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Did any of you even hear what this lady had to say??? Guess you're too busy Obama Bashing.

Am I to assume that you do not approve of bashing Presidents?

Originally Posted by Keedy

I wonder if maybe some of the provinces may be better then others. I learned today that it took 15 years and at province at a time, to get the system complete. Do you enjoy the health care, here in the States??

It is true that people living near Canadian cities are able to obtain much better health care options than people living in isolated areas. Doctors don't want to practice in remote areas. But that would be true with any type of medicine.

As a Canadian, the US government only allows us to stay in the US for 182 days per year. So I don't use US health care. I wait until I get back to Canada where it is free.

And by the way, it is a popular misconception that Canadians get free drugs. We don't.

Originally Posted by JUREK

All very good points All along we are being told none of this will raise our taxes. Only for the very rich.

A smaller government, less taxes system, is what our country needs!

Originally Posted by Barefoot

As a Canadian, the US government only allows us to stay in the US for 182 days per year. So I don't use US health care. I wait until I get back to Canada where it is free.

.

I saw the tax rates in Canada...free is not what I would call it.

hehe

Originally Posted by Keedy

I saw the tax rates in Canada...free is not what I would call it.

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Keedy, I did refer to the Canadian health care system as free, and it is free to those who need it. However, obviously the funds for all government initiatives come from taxpayers. In a previous post, I mentioned the high taxes necessary to fund such a system. Since you obviously overlooked it, I'll repeat it here:


"Having said that, I do agree that this is not the time to consider implementing such a huge and expensive change in the US. I sincerely doubt that most Americans will readily accept the high taxes necessary to support such a system, especially in today's economic climate."

Originally Posted by Barefoot

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Keedy, I did refer to the Canadian health care system as free, and it is free to those who need it. However, obviously the funds for all government initiatives come from taxpayers. In a previous post, I mentioned the high taxes necessary to fund such a system. Since you obviously overlooked it, I'll repeat it here:


"Having said that, I do agree that this is not the time to consider implementing such a huge and expensive change in the US. I sincerely doubt that most Americans will readily accept the high taxes necessary to support such a system, especially in today's economic climate."

Semantics...semantics...Nothing is free.....nothing.....How many people go up to Canada to get your free health care??

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I was responding to Ooper's post "ask anyone from Canada". I've had 50 years experience with the system. I'll just bet I know more Canadians than Ooper and dklassen, and most are very satisfied with their health care.

I am just talking from MY experience with Canadians. I worked for a Canadian based company in upstate NY for over 30 years. I had a lot of interaction with Canadians living in Ontario. The subject of their health care system came up in conversation quite often and I never.... let me repeat... NEVER heard any good comments about it. The biggest complaint was the unbelievable length of time to have services performed. But I am not going to change anybody's mind.... y'all who think this is a good thing... fine. I just hope you never have a serious illness that needs immediate attention.