A guy on the radio this morning was telling his story. His wife just had a baby here in the U.S.A. Everything went well except she ended up have a c-section. She was out in thee days and all were doing fine. Almost at the same time their best friends who lived in Toronto were having a baby. Also after a few minor complications they left her on the delivery table for 70 hours putting off the sugary for natural birth. They would not do the c-section. Too expensive and deemed not necessary. It tore her up so bad inside that she is now flying to the U.S.A to have surgery to repair the damage. There's your Canadian government health care.

But hey, what you expect for "free" right?

Well, it only stands to reason...if you add 50 million to a system that doesn't add any doctors, something has to give.
Rationing is the only solution. For example, if an older person needs a knee replacement he will be entered into the triage software that will determine statistically where on the list he will land. Say a 50 year old and a 75 year old are on the list. The software will determine that statistically the 50 year old has more years to live and work. He goes up the list and the 75 year old goes further down. The 75 year old will be issued a cane and a bottle of aspirins and told to go home and wait.
Now, further down the road, the pool of doctors start getting a little worn around the edges. Maybe more work and less pay. Maybe gets frustrated to see the older people suffer. Word gets out about the pay and frustration and good people do not see the incentive to go to medical school. The government will have to compensate and recruit new doctors from somewhere. Where will they come from? The best and brightest have gone into other careers that will reward them with more incentives like money and job satisfaction.
It gets to be a slippery slope, indeed.

What has been a fallout from national health programs elsewhere is the dramatic increase in medical tourism. There are several firms which target their marketing (successfully, too) towards the more affluent and/or more desperate who don't want to wait the lengthy times for certain procedures, or who have been turned down (excuse me, subject to rationing) for a particular procedure under whatever selection criteria is in place.

Medical tourism now is estimated (conservatively) at well over $20Billion per year, with true numbers tough to get due to the scope and particular countries involved. Just google "medical tourism" and view the various sites on places, statistics, FAQs and the like.

The multi-millionaires (Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton and a number of others) truly don't care about the American health system, as it does not apply to them. To them, it is an academic exercise of which they will never experience in a practical manner. They just get on a private jet, go to the country of choice, and have nipped/tucked/sliced/replaced whatever they want. Do you really think any of the folk clamoring for "health care reform" will ever pay a co-pay, have to show a health insurance card to a provider, or stand in line at a pharmacy? Will they ever experience health care rationing?

If you have a couple of hours, review H.R. 3200. Links to it are everywhere. While there is much that is confusing, there will be plenty of sections which will be obvious on how much money is at stake, how the new system will take a large fortune to set up (who makes money on that?), and how you really aren't going to have an effective way to argue any decision made by the selection-gods.

So, start saving those dimes and nickels and frequent flier miles, and be ready for medical tourism trips to Thailand, Turkey, Cuba, Singapore, and a few other spots. For those of us who have already been warned by the Administration and Congress that we wil be the first to experience rationing, the potential to be a medical tourist is quite real.

It won't be long before some enterprising medical tourism company sets up an office in TV. If this bill passes, that company will have a lot of business.

Originally Posted by Keedy

Semantics...semantics...Nothing is free.....nothing.....How many people go up to Canada to get your free health care??

I suspect the Canadian system is not available to non-Canadians.

Dont fool yourself however, I am aware of US citizens who jet off to other countries (especially India) to have expensive surgical procedures done at a fraction of the cost here. I knew a pt who jetted off somewhere for a gastric bypass operation.... was picked up at the airport in a limo, put up in a luxury hotel with pvt nurses, had the surgery, did well, vacationed for a week, flew home and still saved money.

Originally Posted by dklassen

A guy on the radio this morning was telling his story. His wife just had a baby here in the U.S.A. Everything went well except she ended up have a c-section. She was out in thee days and all were doing fine. Almost at the same time their best friends who lived in Toronto were having a baby.

I'm sure I could find many horror stories in the USA of people dying in hospitals from patient neglect, incorrect medications, doctors' errors. So .... why try to demonize Canadian socialized medicine to make your point? How very strange that most people in Canada rate their health care system very highly.

The valid point is not that socialized medicine is bad. It isn't. But the current economic climate in the US obviously means that it isn't the right time to innovate a hugely expensive system such as socialized medicine.

Originally Posted by rshoffer

I suspect the Canadian system is not available to non-Canadians.

Dont fool yourself however, I am aware of US citizens who jet off to other countries (especially India) to have expensive surgical procedures done at a fraction of the cost here. I knew a pt who jetted off somewhere for a gastric bypass operation.... was picked up at the airport in a limo, put up in a luxury hotel with pvt nurses, had the surgery, did well, vacationed for a week, flew home and still saved money.

It sounds like alot of people will be cashing in their IRA's for surgical procedures and forgoing the other pleasures of retirement because there will be no money left for discretionary spending.

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I'm sure I could find many horror stories in the USA of people dying in hospitals from patient neglect, incorrect medications, doctors' errors. So .... why try to demonize Canadian socialized medicine to make your point? How very strange that most people in Canada rate their health care system very highly.

The valid point is not that socialized medicine is bad. It isn't. But the current economic climate in the US obviously means that it isn't the right time to innovate a hugely expensive system such as socialized medicine.

Agree!

The Canadian system has had the opportunity for 15 years of set-up and 50 more years of maturing, and supports 31 million people. So, comparing it to a throw-it-together-now system the Administration touts as immediately necessary for 306 million people during a period of close-to-10% unemployment and a major economic drop is unfair and illogical.

We can all find horror stories within every type of system. The bottom line is indeed - can we afford the set-up costs and the maturation period for any new system at this time?

When an economy is healthy, we seem to be able to afford anything. When we are up to our butts iin national debt, and the economy still heading downward, can we really afford any kind of new program - health care, travel to Jupiter, search for the Loch Ness Monster or cap-and-trade?

For those who would like a health care system similar to the Canadian program, a little research is warranted into how the Canadians did it, the problems they encountered, are there any cultural or economic differences between Canada and the USA which apply.

For those from Canada and the UK who reside part-time in TV, your insight into how you employ your health care system is appreciated. You have the advantage of finding it necessary to experience both the US "system" and your national one. It would not surprise me that you have developed strategies to take advantage of both, and the why and how of that helps us who have not experienced government-managed health care understand it.

the level of coverage and choices we current enjoy.

So to solve the problem of the few, disruption of the satisfied many gets trampled. As has been so many times, the medical system is in need of improvement. It is not so bad that it has to be scrapped and start over.

I believe he is working on staying viable as a 2012 candidate, hence the understanding of cost is no object nor is the satisfaction or consideration of the majority....in my opinion.

btk

He is doomed in 2012 just like congress is in 2010. Just watch, he is a one term disaster. People are catching on to him and don't like what they see.

Our health care is the best in the world, people come here when they want the best. Our health care system isn't broken but it needs improving.

It DOES NOT need to be totally dismantled and taken over by the government. BO is lying to the American people.

Originally Posted by dklassen

He is doomed in 2012 just like congress is in 2010. Just watch, he is a one term disaster. People are catching on to him and don't like what they see.

Our health care is the best in the world, people come here when they want the best. Our health care system isn't broken but it needs improving.

It DOES NOT need to be totally dismantled and taken over by the government. BO is lying to the American people.

A bit premature, IMO, to call the 2012 election.

Agree that there will be new faces in congress in 2010. The bad news is, new faces same results or lack thereof. No reason to think otherwise. It's a revolving door. Republican, Democrat makes no difference these days.

Originally Posted by dklassen

He is doomed in 2012 just like congress is in 2010. Just watch, he is a one term disaster. People are catching on to him and don't like what they see.

Before you put too much hope in the above, remember H. L. Mencken.

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"




`

Originally Posted by BobKat1

A bit premature, IMO, to call the 2012 election.

Agree that there will be new faces in congress in 2010. The bad news is, new faces same results or lack thereof. No reason to think otherwise. It's a revolving door. Republican, Democrat makes no difference these days.

The only way Obama loses in 2012 is getting out the older white voter as was shown in the 2008 election when you study the stats to determine why !

There are so many organizations and sub organizations already working on registration and voters, and he will carry some voter types no matter what he does, so it will require a huge get out the vote for him to lose.

Yea, by 2012 Acorn will be so organized and flush with money that they will have armed thugs at every voting arena. I say this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek....but you never know...do you?

He'll loose. His numbers are dropping like a rock and even some of the people I work with that voted for him are getting pretty disgusted and certainly aren't buying into his health care lies and deception.

The economy continues to get worse as more people are loosing jobs. His schemes aren't working, they won't work and many knew they wouldn't work. Nothing in his plan is creating jobs and never were designed to create jobs.

No jobs, no recovery. No recovery, no second term. Add on Cap-n-tax, socialized health care and quadrupling of our debt and he can kiss is second term good bye.

Unless.... he succeeds in pounding the final nail in our private sector economy so folks have no choice but to crawl to him for their survival. Then maybe he'll win. People are waking up though and they don't like what they see.

Did you see the town hall meeting on health care with congressman Carnahan(d) defending Obama care? The crowd practically ran him out of the room. One guy at the end yelled "if it's so good, why doesn't congress use the same plan the rest of us will be forced into." Good question.

People don't want this and yet King Obama is still trying to ram it down our throats. 78% are happy with their current health care. It ain't gonna fly. Wait till the congressmen get home to their own town hall meetings. We'll see if their tune changes. All they care about is getting reelected and they will turn on BO in a heartbeat, especially the blue dogs which already pretty much gave him the shaft today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CyZh...layer_embedded