Originally Posted by Guest

You nailed it once again Chi.

The most disgusting part of course, is that this perverted reasoning and false equivalencies are unbelievably being asserted by someone claiming to have once been paid by taxpayers...and had law enforcement authority.

And yet, according to the alt-right and Trump Cultists...this country doesn't have a problem with law enforcement treating minorities differently.

Simply unbelievable.

OMG...please...the authorities KISS the black peoples ass. They literally get away with murder if the authorities think there may be riots. They're treated differently all right...they get away with things NO white could get away with.

Yes it IS unbelievable how liberals think.

Blacks are 9X more likely to commit a crime. MUCH more likely to commit a violent crime.

That is WHY their neighborhoods are dangerous. It's WHY their schools are dangerous. It's WHY they're locked up more. It's WHY they're poor.

What is the poorest most violent part of Chicago? Of ANY city? Where the blacks live...always...every single time.

It was good to hear Trump denounce the white supremacist groups, NeoNazis, and KKK for the vermin they are.

He should have done it 24 hours ago like Ivanka but it still was good.

White supremacist groups and the NeoNazis now know that the good and decent people of the USA want nothing to do with them.

Yes, Don Baldwin, this means YOU. You are scum and have been denounced by decent Americans.

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

It was good to hear Trump denounce the white supremacist groups, NeoNazis, and KKK for the vermin they are.

He should have done it 24 hours ago like Ivanka but it still was good.

White supremacist groups and the NeoNazis now know that the good and decent people of the USA want nothing to do with them.

Yes, Don Baldwin, this means YOU. You are scum and have been denounced by decent Americans.

Keep in mind that Trump begrudgingly amended his statement. That's part of his base that he needs to keep together.

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Originally Posted by Guest

It was good to hear Trump denounce the white supremacist groups, NeoNazis, and KKK for the vermin they are.

He should have done it 24 hours ago like Ivanka but it still was good.

White supremacist groups and the NeoNazis now know that the good and decent people of the USA want nothing to do with them.

Yes, Don Baldwin, this means YOU. You are scum and have been denounced by decent Americans.

You can denounce the truth and those who try to show it to you all you want. It WON'T change the FACT that America WAS #1 in the world and 90% white in the late 1950s...and is NOW 49% white and #25 in the world...projected to be 20-25% white and much lower in 30 years. We WILL become a Mexico II. Look to the border counties for America's future.

You're not decent...you're ignorant fools.

Originally Posted by Guest

Throwing in Black Lives Matter and affirmative action reasoning is a distraction from the fact that the white supremacists are solely racists. Period. There is no justification.

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Mentioning BLM and Affirmative Action was not intended as a distraction, but rather, to explain possible motivations of White extremist demonstrators. Understanding motivation can be a step towards changing perceptions, and then actions, of demonstrators.

It was certainly not intended as a justification. But it is much too simplistic to simply say that the demonstrators are "solely racists. Period." They got that way somehow. They weren't born as racists. They received instruction; they had certain experiences. If we can understand their motivation, perhaps we can change attitudes.

For example, the practice of Affirmative Action is not nearly as pervasive as it was a few decades ago. Perhaps the demonstrators do not realize this, and education of the facts might modify their actions.

I began this thread to express my concern about seeing the mass torchlight demonstration that was reminiscent of Hitler's Brown Shirt marches in 1930s Germany. I never expected to see such a demonstration in the United States.

I also hoped to see some responses that offered thoughts on how to counter the apparent increase in neo-Nazi participation in our country. I have been disappointed.

So far, the thread has been effectively hijacked by a dialogue between Don Baldwin, who posts statistics and opinions that express a frank opinion regarding the difference in intellectual achievement between the races, and Chi-Town whose constant mantra is that those who express opinions contrary to his are racist. This generates much heat, but no light, as it is simply an argument, with no solutions suggested.

Beyond that, of course is the sniping of the TDS Troll, whose posts I disregard as irrational and inconsequential.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to de-escalate and avoid conflicts between groups such as we have seen in Charlottesville this week?


Carl in Tampa

Originally Posted by Guest

Mentioning BLM and Affirmative Action was not intended as a distraction, but rather, to explain possible motivations of White extremist demonstrators. Understanding motivation can be a step towards changing perceptions, and then actions, of demonstrators.

....


Beyond that, of course is the sniping of the TDS Troll, whose posts I disregard as irrational and inconsequential.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to de-escalate and avoid conflicts between groups such as we have seen in Charlottesville this week?


Carl in Tampa

Yes...EVERYONE gets the RIGHT to protest...unmolested. EVERYONE gets the RIGHT to speak...unmolested...uncensored.

Until you have that...you won't have the truth.

Originally Posted by Guest

Mentioning BLM and Affirmative Action was not intended as a distraction, but rather, to explain possible motivations of White extremist demonstrators. Understanding motivation can be a step towards changing perceptions, and then actions, of demonstrators.

It was certainly not intended as a justification. But it is much too simplistic to simply say that the demonstrators are "solely racists. Period." They got that way somehow. They weren't born as racists. They received instruction; they had certain experiences. If we can understand their motivation, perhaps we can change attitudes.

For example, the practice of Affirmative Action is not nearly as pervasive as it was a few decades ago. Perhaps the demonstrators do not realize this, and education of the facts might modify their actions.

I began this thread to express my concern about seeing the mass torchlight demonstration that was reminiscent of Hitler's Brown Shirt marches in 1930s Germany. I never expected to see such a demonstration in the United States.

I also hoped to see some responses that offered thoughts on how to counter the apparent increase in neo-Nazi participation in our country. I have been disappointed.

So far, the thread has been effectively hijacked by a dialogue between Don Baldwin, who posts statistics and opinions that express a frank opinion regarding the difference in intellectual achievement between the races, and Chi-Town whose constant mantra is that those who express opinions contrary to his are racist. This generates much heat, but no light, as it is simply an argument, with no solutions suggested.

Beyond that, of course is the sniping of the TDS Troll, whose posts I disregard as irrational and inconsequential.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to de-escalate and avoid conflicts between groups such as we have seen in Charlottesville this week?


Carl in Tampa

First, let me agree with your concern. It is a VERY REAL CONCERN, but not a new one. These folks have been lurking around for years, posting hate....hell, David Duke has been around for a long long time. This is not a new movement.

Next, this movement which uses nazi propaganda and language and symbols pre dates any affirmative action and I think referring to that is making up excuses for these people. As you noted in your OP, it is like the 1930's which had no affirmative action, nor Black Lives Matter,, and what upset me ON THIS FORUM mostly was trying to make it about that. This movement has been in the shadows for many years and predate all the movements you can bring up.

Did you you note that I posted from their website, or one of them and wRiting 24 hours what they said about the girl killed. NOT ONE PERSON THAT I SAW EVEN EXPRESSED SHOCK OR DISMAY AT THAT That means all those who visit here and read it could care less and they live among us.

NO....equating this long standing movement with anything you can bring up is just not even reasonable.

Why cannot you and others take these people for what they say. They are filled with hate for certain groups...they now feel emboldened by Trump. Now you and others can call of us for having the syndrome which is total and complete silliness. This kind of thing was predicted early on if he was elected. This is not a syndrome. You mention experiences.....consider....

"Forty-four years ago, the Trump family's real estate company was accused by a Republican-run U.S. Justice Department of discriminating against blacks. The company settled.

Twenty-eight years ago, Trump publicly called for capital punishment after five black youths were charged with a crime of which they were later cleared. "Maybe hate is what we need if we're going to get something done," he told a television interviewer.

Six years ago, Trump sought to discredit the legitimacy of America's first black president. He spread the fabricated suggestion that President Barack Obama was born abroad and not, in fact, American.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/13/char...-come-out.html

Donald Trump did not invent this hate....he is nor was the sole cause, but he certainly emboldened it. His entire campaign resembled the marches etc of the nazi movement in the 1930's. Chants of hate included.

What I am saying to all you Trump supporters is this. WORDS HAVE CONSEQUENCES especially when they are the words of the United States President. Add to that, the social media and quickness of travel of statements and especially when it is said so publicly for ALL countries of the world to hear it.

This emboldened this group; they have been very clear. He has even been reluctant to criticize them just in a general sense.

From that link I already gave...

"But in 2016, white Americans with racial and religious grievances heard a signal. A post-election Democracy Fund study identified Trump's most important group of supporters as voters with a strong sense of identity as white Christians and negative feelings toward immigration, blacks and Muslims.

With words and actions, Trump has gratified them as president. He made Stephen Bannon, who called the Breitbart news site he ran a "platform for the alt-right,"

I think it is not only 100% wrong to equate what you guys are trying to do to this movement, it is simply working with your heads in the ground.

These folks have been around WELL BEFORE any of the movements you guys say might be a motivation. Yes, experience does dictate hate etc., but not what you guys want to do with making it political.

You can call me having any syndrome you want, I have my eyes wide open here......I know this mans history.....he is repeating it but from inside the oval office.

Originally Posted by Guest

Throwing in Black Lives Matter and affirmative action reasoning is a distraction from the fact that the white supremacists are solely racists. Period. There is no justification.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Guest

Yes...EVERYONE gets the RIGHT to protest...unmolested. EVERYONE gets the RIGHT to speak...unmolested...uncensored.

Until you have that...you won't have the truth.

That would be the Constitutional answer.

The question is how to accomplish it.

With my background in law enforcement and the military, my answer in how to accomplish it is an overwhelming police presence at any event which is known to have the potential for violence.

When the Charlottesville city government issued a permit for a White Supremacist group to demonstrate at Emancipation (Lee) Park, their Police Department should have prepared for a violent counter-demonstration, to include bringing in the State Police and having National Guard troops suited up and standing by somewhere in the city.

The city government would have been well advised to pass some city ordinances prohibiting having civilians from wearing helmets, body armor or similar protective clothing, or carrying flagstaffs, sign or poster poles, or similar items which could be used as weapons anywhere in the city for a period of 10 hours before or 10 hours after the period of an authorized period of the permitted demonstration.

And then enforce the ordinances strictly.

Sadly, most local governmental leaders do not have the courage to take this course of action.

Carl in Tampa

Originally Posted by Guest

First, let me agree with your concern. It is a VERY REAL CONCERN, but not a new one. These folks have been lurking around for years, posting hate....hell, David Duke has been around for a long long time. This is not a new movement.

Next, this movement which uses nazi propaganda and language and symbols pre dates any affirmative action and I think referring to that is making up excuses for these people. As you noted in your OP, it is like the 1930's which had no affirmative action, nor Black Lives Matter,, and what upset me ON THIS FORUM mostly was trying to make it about that. This movement has been in the shadows for many years and predate all the movements you can bring up.

Did you you note that I posted from their website, or one of them and wRiting 24 hours what they said about the girl killed. NOT ONE PERSON THAT I SAW EVEN EXPRESSED SHOCK OR DISMAY AT THAT That means all those who visit here and read it could care less and they live among us.

NO....equating this long standing movement with anything you can bring up is just not even reasonable.

Why cannot you and others take these people for what they say. They are filled with hate for certain groups...they now feel emboldened by Trump. Now you and others can call of us for having the syndrome which is total and complete silliness. This kind of thing was predicted early on if he was elected. This is not a syndrome. You mention experiences.....consider....

"Forty-four years ago, the Trump family's real estate company was accused by a Republican-run U.S. Justice Department of discriminating against blacks. The company settled.

Twenty-eight years ago, Trump publicly called for capital punishment after five black youths were charged with a crime of which they were later cleared. "Maybe hate is what we need if we're going to get something done," he told a television interviewer.

Six years ago, Trump sought to discredit the legitimacy of America's first black president. He spread the fabricated suggestion that President Barack Obama was born abroad and not, in fact, American.

Charlottesville: GOP 'disgust' for Trump more likely to come out

Donald Trump did not invent this hate....he is nor was the sole cause, but he certainly emboldened it. His entire campaign resembled the marches etc of the nazi movement in the 1930's. Chants of hate included.

What I am saying to all you Trump supporters is this. WORDS HAVE CONSEQUENCES especially when they are the words of the United States President. Add to that, the social media and quickness of travel of statements and especially when it is said so publicly for ALL countries of the world to hear it.

This emboldened this group; they have been very clear. He has even been reluctant to criticize them just in a general sense.

From that link I already gave...

"But in 2016, white Americans with racial and religious grievances heard a signal. A post-election Democracy Fund study identified Trump's most important group of supporters as voters with a strong sense of identity as white Christians and negative feelings toward immigration, blacks and Muslims.

With words and actions, Trump has gratified them as president. He made Stephen Bannon, who called the Breitbart news site he ran a "platform for the alt-right,"

I think it is not only 100% wrong to equate what you guys are trying to do to this movement, it is simply working with your heads in the ground.

These folks have been around WELL BEFORE any of the movements you guys say might be a motivation. Yes, experience does dictate hate etc., but not what you guys want to do with making it political.

You can call me having any syndrome you want, I have my eyes wide open here......I know this mans history.....he is repeating it but from inside the oval office.

Alas, again I see a list of grievances with no suggestion about how to de-escalate the conflict between opposing groups of demonstrators.

Here is a fallacy in your reasoning. You state that "this movement which uses nazi propaganda and language and symbols pre dates any affirmative action and I think referring to that is making up excuses for these people."

What you ignore is that these people were not born neo-Nazis. They were attracted to the movement for some reason. I am suggesting that we explore what this reason may be, and see if we can do anything to modify their attitudes.

As I said in another post, I have personally interviewed neo-Nazis, usually in their own homes. In some I could discern that their attraction to the movement was economically based because they felt they were impoverished due to Affirmative Action depriving them of the jobs they felt they were entitled to.

However, in the eyes of others I saw the gleam of madness such as can be seen in photos of Charles Manson. These true believers were regarded as dangerous, and we checked up on them regularly.

I suspect, but cannot say for sure, that in recent years attention has been diverted from the neo-Nazis to the threat of Islamic terrorists. In addition, of course, the flood of illegal aliens whose presence in our country was facilitated by President Obama, has diverted the attention of many law enforcement officers.

But, again, people join movements not because the movements have been around for years, but because something in the message of the movement resonates with their education or experience. If we can learn why they joined a movement, perhaps we can modify their attitudes.

.
.
Carl in Tampa

Originally Posted by Guest

That would be the Constitutional answer.

The question is how to accomplish it.

With my background in law enforcement and the military, my answer in how to accomplish it is an overwhelming police presence at any event which is known to have the potential for violence.

When the Charlottesville city government issued a permit for a White Supremacist group to demonstrate at Emancipation (Lee) Park, their Police Department should have prepared for a violent counter-demonstration, to include bringing in the State Police and having National Guard troops suited up and standing by somewhere in the city.

The city government would have been well advised to pass some city ordinances prohibiting having civilians from wearing helmets, body armor or similar protective clothing, or carrying flagstaffs, sign or poster poles, or similar items which could be used as weapons anywhere in the city for a period of 10 hours before or 10 hours after the period of an authorized period of the permitted demonstration.

And then enforce the ordinances strictly.

Sadly, most local governmental leaders do not have the courage to take this course of action.

Carl in Tampa

Sadly...MOST local city governments have sections of their city...where the blacks live...that are no-mans-land. Places they ONLY enter with overwhelming numbers.

WHY do you think "SWAT teams" are used so often in minority neighborhoods? The police FEAR the residents. Fear what will happen when they knock on a door. It's literally a war zone in the black inner cities.

See what I mean?

Carl in Tampa
.
.
.

Originally Posted by Guest

Alas, again I see a list of grievances with no suggestion about how to de-escalate the conflict between opposing groups of demonstrators.

Here is a fallacy in your reasoning. You state that "this movement which uses nazi propaganda and language and symbols pre dates any affirmative action and I think referring to that is making up excuses for these people."

What you ignore is that these people were not born neo-Nazis. They were attracted to the movement for some reason. I am suggesting that we explore what this reason may be, and see if we can do anything to modify their attitudes.

As I said in another post, I have personally interviewed neo-Nazis, usually in their own homes. In some I could discern that their attraction to the movement was economically based because they felt they were impoverished due to Affirmative Action depriving them of the jobs they felt they were entitled to.

However, in the eyes of others I saw the gleam of madness such as can be seen in photos of Charles Manson. These true believers were regarded as dangerous, and we checked up on them regularly.

I suspect, but cannot say for sure, that in recent years attention has been diverted from the neo-Nazis to the threat of Islamic terrorists. In addition, of course, the flood of illegal aliens whose presence in our country was facilitated by President Obama, has diverted the attention of many law enforcement officers.

But, again, people join movements not because the movements have been around for years, but because something in the message of the movement resonates with their education or experience. If we can learn why they joined a movement, perhaps we can modify their attitudes.

.
.
Carl in Tampa

I am sure of what I say......JUST STOP THE AGGRESSIVE PERSONAL ATTACKS THAT TRUMP DOES. HE MAKES IT ALL PERSONAL AND PUBLIC. YES, CRITICIZE BUT DO IT PRIVATELY.

GUESS WHAT....IF HE STOPS THAT..STOPS TWEETING ABOUT EVERY LITTLE PERSONAL GRIEVANCE, THE NEWS CYCLES CHANGE AND MAYBE HE HAS TIME TO GOVERN

Originally Posted by Guest

See what I mean?

Carl in Tampa
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.
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Is that for me? You disbelieve me Carl? Big mistake...

"The danger of reporting No-Go zones to the public may be why this topic is undiscussed in national news coverage. Although these are not officially called “No-Go zones,” police from this department claim that they cannot enter many of these districts without being directly shot at or attacked."

The United States of America (Except in a No-Go Zone) | The DIGITAL VOICE

"The Army last week warned all military personnel in the United States to avoid 37 American cities this week over concerns that anti-police protests, dubbed “Days of Rage,” are planned and could turn violent."

"A U.S. Army North spokesman, Lt. Col. Jason Shropshire, said the safety of soldiers and their families is a high priority. “For security reasons, we don’t discuss force-protection measures that we put into place at our Army installations or the specifics of cautionary advice we provide to our soldiers,” he said."

"The notice says that “being anywhere near these protests greatly increases the chance that you could become a victim of violence."

U.S. military told to avoid 37 American cities for fear anti-police protests may turn violent - Washington Times

"The argument has some power because the dangers, for cops, are real. The possibility of violence is overwhelming."

“One of the most vulnerable times in our day is shift change,” Officer Virgilio, 31, says as he checks the route. “It’s a matter of avoiding certain patterns. Anybody who is trying to organize some sort of attack on police officers is going to do some sort of surveillance. They’re going to figure out when our shift changes are, they are going to figure out what doors we use to get in and out of the precinct. And it doesn’t take long to gather that type of intelligence.”

"Because there are so many guns out there, police officers are trained to live in fear of the very people they are supposed to protect and serve. Anytime a police officer pulls over a car, he or she must worry that the person inside that car will have a gun that could be turned on them. At training academies throughout the nation, new recruits are taught that cop-killers need two things: a will to kill and an opportunity to act. There's little an officer can do about will; anyone can have it without anyone else knowing. Officers can, however, limit the opportunities for a cop-killer to act by being prepared and quick to defend themselves."

" More police officers are being killed, because they’re hesitating more before pulling the trigger to defend themselves, [Chief Mark] Becker said.

That hesitation stems in part from pressure created by news media and community activists who are increasingly claiming police-involved shootings are racially motivated, he said.

“There’s a small fraction of people who want to come to judgment before knowing all the facts,” he said.

That public pressure is a factor as police officers make life-and-death decisions within seconds, he said. “That plays out in a police officer’s mind,” Becker said. ” ‘What do I do, what do I do?’ and then all of a sudden he’s getting shot.”"

Inner cities are a war zone.

You claimed to work in law enforcement in Tampa? Then you know there are areas the police don't go into alone.

CARL

First, I could care less what the trolls on here call me or what snappy little names they come up with, nor do I care how many times you say I have a syndrome.

This weekend showed for sure, what I suspected. Those on here are my neighbors, but frankly, I share very little in common with them. This forum is all about white nationalists. They share a hate for Obama, not because of his policies, but because if his color. He is much more of a man that Trump will ever get close to being. They hate Clinton so much, they turn over the Oval to a man consumed with himself.

He is, and I have said this repeatedly, a very very mean spirited person who, in my opinion ranks our country well behind himself.

He has no desire to lead ALL the people, none whatsoever. He is self centered and I agree that background plays a role. He grew up in a Klan family, and throughout his life manifested that upbringing.

When he was elected, I felt a revulsion for the man, but an understanding that maybe he might be able to do something good that I might endorse. He has destroyed all chances for that.

He single handily screwed any hope, at least now, for health care revision. His obsession for hating people overrides any common sense. The time he should have been acting like a President and working the halls of congress, he was hate speaking, and leading Boy Scouts in loving chants.

You can tell me I have a syndrome....you can blame OBama and Clinton for every ill in the world....you can justify hating, whatever you want to do. You can FALSELY accuse our media of gross things, you can excuse whatever he says and does in anyway you want. He will do nothing for this country UNLESS it does something for him.

I disagreed with OBama and Clinton as much as all of you, but I never HATED them or anyone.

This forum has become a white nationalist haven.

America is NOT becoming great again with this President.

You want this rhetoric to stop.....tell it to the President.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
Throwing in Black Lives Matter and affirmative action reasoning is a distraction from the fact that the white supremacists are solely racists. Period. There is no justification.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Au contrairie

Throwing in Black Lives Matters, an affirmative action, quotas, et al and intentional destruction of american southern history, etc is the nexus for protests today and not a distraction.

Black Lives Matter affirmative action, et al is was my way of saying identity politics. Identity politics left or right is divisive. Identity politics moves this country in a wrong direction because it does not take into consideration all of its nation's people or problems

Did people vote for Obama based on his bona fides No identity politics demanded "the first black president".
Did the Dems learn their lesson? No they went right back and wanted to elect the "first woman president.

Why was Trump elected? Because middle America was tired of coastal identity politics. Who voted for Trump?
the blue collar/middle Americans who left the Democratic party over the years because of identity politics. these are people who are not racist, etc but they do cherish traditional values, family as a unit religion, adherence to our Articles of Freedom

It is the radical left's false narrative about Trump and his followers being racist that they spread in their endeavor to recapture control and continue their pursuit of identity politic.

The left focuses intentionally on the David duke's but based on our population they are .003 of the population but get 100% of the attention from the liberal media.

I am sorry to have to say this but people who succumb to Trump Derangement syndrome are playing "useful idiots" to the establishment and their game of identity politic .

I don't like Trump personally but at least I know he can't and won't be bought or intimated and in Washington's swamp that is a good thing.

Personal Best Regards: