Originally Posted by waynet

IRS tax study 2007...The top 1% of taxpayers averaged about $138,000,000.They paid a tax rate of 16.6%. Their secretaries paid a higher rate.
By 2010 the very rich will see their taxes fall by 5.7%Over the ten yeay period(2000-2010) the top 1% will recieve tax cuts totalling a half trillion dollars. Each tax break will average $340,000.
By 2010 52% of the total tax cuts will go to the richest 1% whose average income is 1.5 million.
Its no wonder that some reps are fighting to lower the estate tax. The estates are getting a lot bigger.

I certainly cannot argue anything when it comes to taxes, HOWEVER,if your above statements are true.......what happened to the extra tax that this administration is applying to those who make more than 250000 ?

How can the taxes be falling, as you say, but the President is saying the opposite ?

The audacity some people have to proclaim this person or that person isn't paying enough.

I don't believe YOU were the one that earned that money now were you? Liberals love to spend money as long as it comes from someone else's pocket.

That's one button people really push for me. What makes them think they are entitled to other people's earnings or to even advocate what or how much should be taken from them when they didn't earn it. Man-o-man, that's the height of arrogance and elitism to me.

The only thing more arrogant than a rich person who doesn't pay their fair share is another person who thinks they are truly entitled to some of it.

Of all the jobs I've had, I think every singe one was provided by the "evil rich." But don't listen to me, make sure those rich people pay and pay dearly. I'm sure the person down the street collecting welfare will hire me, provide health benefits, 401K and two weeks a year vacation.

Or maybe none of us will even have to worry about it any more. The government will take care of us all. Or maybe the rich will just sit on their money and not hire any new employees. Oh wait, aren't they doing that now? Well there's the solution, put it to them REALLY HARD and maybe they will start hiring again.

The top 1% earned 19 % of total income but paid 37% of total federal taxes.

The top 5% of total income in USA paid 57% of the federal taxes.


The bottom 50% of wage earners in USA paid 3% of the federal taxes.


So, tell me who is getting the shaft?

You asked where our wealth went and I told you. I can't help it if you don't like the answer. The wealthy in the USA up until 1984 had a tax rate of 50% and more importantly a capitol gains tax rate of 50%. Those rates are now 16.5% and 15%. That's alot of money the gov't does not have.
The other problem is our defense budget. It is totally out of control but no one seems to have the courage to challenge their budget. We spend more money on defense than the rest of the world combined.

Originally Posted by waynet

You asked where our wealth went and I told you. I can't help it if you don't like the answer. The wealthy in the USA up until 1984 had a tax rate of 50% and more importantly a capitol gains tax rate of 50%. Those rates are now 16.5% and 15%. That's alot of money the gov't does not have.
The other problem is our defense budget. It is totally out of control but no one seems to have the courage to challenge their budget. We spend more money on defense than the rest of the world combined.

You are so wrong: The decrease in the tax rate increasd the revenue.

This is from Stephen Moore from the Wall Street Journal:



"The 1997 tax reform, passed under President Clinton, reduced the capital gains tax rate from 28 percent to 20 percent, and taxable capital gains nearly doubled over the next three years. The 2003 reform brought the rate down to 15 percent, and between 2002 and 2005 there was a 154 percent increase in capital gains reported as income."

"This explosion in realized gains cannot be explained only by the rise in the stock market, which averaged just 13 percent annually between 2003 and 2005. Capital gains tax receipts also far outpaced the revenues that the government’s static models predicted. Between 2003 and 2007, actual tax receipts exceeded expectations by $207 billion."


So, when you lower the rates, people invest their money and tax receipts go up, not down. Capital gains is actually voluntary as investors can keep their money tied up in land or whatever.

I say it again, You are wrong!!!

Originally Posted by waynet

You asked where our wealth went and I told you. I can't help it if you don't like the answer. The wealthy in the USA up until 1984 had a tax rate of 50% and more importantly a capitol gains tax rate of 50%. Those rates are now 16.5% and 15%. That's alot of money the gov't does not have.
The other problem is our defense budget. It is totally out of control but no one seems to have the courage to challenge their budget. We spend more money on defense than the rest of the world combined.

Again, here are a few facts you can chew on:

2008 Budget: The three top expenditures

Defense- 635 Billion= 21%

Social Security- 617 Billion around 21%

Medicare, Medicaid and Chip- 599 Billion=20%


So, if you add up all the entitlements , it is around twice as much as the military. But don't worry, Obama is looking at ways to cut the entitlements. Do you think your retirement money is safe? Think again.

High Five's to dklassen and Donna2. You both nailed it.

and some facts for you to chew on..from the Congressional Research Service Report of Congress Jan.2003..."Past capital gains tax rate cuts have increased revenue for the first 2 calander yearsafter the cuts yet lose revenue thereafter. In addition the amount of tax revenue decreases as the capital gains are taxed at a lower rate. Finally a capital gains tax cut induces stock sales which causes downward pressure on stock prices.
We can both find studies that support our side,but if everyone got a tax cut,the estate tax was lowered and there was a cut in the capital gains tax the federal gov't has less money.In itself that's O.K. However if we are fighting 2 wars and have the 3 large entitlement programs with less money to pay for them that's where the money is going.Should we cut all 3 of the largest programs? What do you think would happen? Should we cancel the next set of tax cuts until we get out of this mess or at least until we leave Afghanistan and Iraq?

Donna2: If you hadn't quoted those numbers from the IRS about who's paying how much of the tax burden, I would have. It's the one place where I was thankful to Rush Limbaugh as he kept a link to those numbers - right to the IRS website - on his web site.

This is something that people don't seem to realize. ANY time ANY tax cut is proposed, it's going to 'go to the rich' because they are THE ONLY PEOPLE PAYING TAXES. It's hard to give a tax cut to someone not paying taxes.

As far as the capital gains tax rate goes, do people not remember the reason WHY it was cut? The reason was that we needed to encourage investment and savings. Saving a dollar and having it's earning taxed 50% cents was pathetic. Imagine putting $100 aside. A few years later, you have $120. First you'd have to pay $10 taxes on the $20, and the remaining $110 is now, due to inflation in the Carter years, worth less than $80. So putting aside your money COST you as opposed to spending it when you got it.

This is A Bad Thing.

It is still true that the government always ends up with less revenue when it raises taxes. Always has always will.

This being true why do Liberals always want to raise taxes?

Could it be that Liberals want to penalize Businesses and successful individuals for some reason.

Could it be that Liberals really don't believe that it is the businesses and the successful people who create jobs.

Originally Posted by djplong

Donna2: If you hadn't quoted those numbers from the IRS about who's paying how much of the tax burden, I would have. It's the one place where I was thankful to Rush Limbaugh as he kept a link to those numbers - right to the IRS website - on his web site.

This is something that people don't seem to realize. ANY time ANY tax cut is proposed, it's going to 'go to the rich' because they are THE ONLY PEOPLE PAYING TAXES. It's hard to give a tax cut to someone not paying taxes.

As far as the capital gains tax rate goes, do people not remember the reason WHY it was cut? The reason was that we needed to encourage investment and savings. Saving a dollar and having it's earning taxed 50% cents was pathetic. Imagine putting $100 aside. A few years later, you have $120. First you'd have to pay $10 taxes on the $20, and the remaining $110 is now, due to inflation in the Carter years, worth less than $80. So putting aside your money COST you as opposed to spending it when you got it.

This is A Bad Thing.

With THAT we can agree Djplong. I seem to remember when there was some kind of "luxury tax" and people stopped buying "yachts."
It put many people out of work.

Locally (meaning here in New England), it killed boatbuilders in Maine and Connecticut.

"The poor complain about the money they can't get, and the rich complain about the money they can't keep"

The fact of the matter is that the so-called "rich" are will probably stay rich through good times and bad. If the government creates an environment that is hostile to business, they will not invest.

Being envious of people who have money is just foolishness.
Ambitious people who have the means to get richer, are the ones that create good jobs.

Anyways, that is my thought for the day. Must go and rest now.

Originally Posted by Donna2

With THAT we can agree Djplong. I seem to remember when there was some kind of "luxury tax" and people stopped buying "yachts."
It put many people out of work.

You just decribed "fiscal conservatism101"

Originally Posted by Donna2

The top 1% earned 19 % of total income but paid 37% of total federal taxes.

The top 5% of total income in USA paid 57% of the federal taxes.


The bottom 50% of wage earners in USA paid 3% of the federal taxes.


So, tell me who is getting the shaft?

You might want to check your sources.....


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...5865964.column

These guys made $108 million dollars between 2004 - 2009 and paid $0 dollars in taxes.