Originally Posted by cologal

You might want to check your sources.....


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...5865964.column

These guys made $108 million dollars between 2004 - 2009 and paid $0 dollars in taxes.

I knew somebody might post this story. As a sports fan, I heard a lot on this the last few days, and I would be glad, if time permitted to find stories of folks ripping off the system and everytime we hear it we get upset and rightfully so.

HOWEVER.....

In taking your advice to find sources...

"The highest earners pay the lion's share of the dollars Uncle Sam collects.

The top fifth of households made 56% of pre-tax income in 2006 but paid 86% of all individual income tax revenue collected, according to the most recent data available from the Congressional Budget Office.

Narrowing in further: The top 1% of households, which made 19% of pre-tax income, paid 39% of all individual income taxes.

The trend is similar if you count income taxes, social insurance taxes, excise taxes and corporate income taxes (such as capital gains) combined. The top fifth of households paid 69% of all federal taxes. The top 1% paid 28%."

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/15/pf/t...east/index.htm

"Percentiles Ranked by AGI
AGI Threshold on Percentiles
Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

Top 1%
$410,096
40.42

Top 5%
$160,041
60.63

Top 10%
$113,018
71.22

Top 25%
$66,532
86.59

Top 50%
$32,879
97.11

Bottom 50%
<$32,879
2.89

Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income

Source: Internal Revenue Service"http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pa...ome-taxes.html


In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—are significantly higher than they were in 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

The 2007 numbers show that the top 1 percent’s income and tax shares reached all-time highs for the third year in a row. That is likely to reverse direction when data from recessionary 2008 is published a year from now.

For the first time this year, we are also presenting data on the top 0.1% of tax returns (the top 10 percent of the top 1 percent). This 10 percent of the returns in the top 1 percent amounts to only 141,000 tax returns but accounts for nearly 12 percent of the adjusted gross income earned and approximately 20 percent of the nation's federal individual income taxes. The average income for a tax return in this top 0.1 percent is $7.4 million, while the average amount of income tax paid is $1.6 million, indicating an average effective individual income tax rate of 21.5 percent. This very top income group actually has a lower average effective tax rate than the rest of the top 1 percent of returns because these extremely high-income returns are more likely to have income from capital gains and dividends, which are typically taxed at lower rates. (Note that in the case of capital gains and dividends, in most cases the income has already been taxed once by the corporate income tax, which is not included here.)

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html


There are more sources, and lest you want to say how the Bush tax cuts or any tax cuts "favor" those who make more money....DUH.....of course it does when you cut taxes across the board. They are still paying the same percentage of what is paid.

Then you add the following...

"In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/t...axes/index.htm

Originally Posted by cologal

You might want to check your sources.....


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...5865964.column

These guys made $108 million dollars between 2004 - 2009 and paid $0 dollars in taxes.

There is nothing wrong with my sources. There are tax cheats on both sides of the aisles. Obama has surrounded himself with tax cheats. Rich families like the Kennedy's hide their money, too.

Originally Posted by Donna2

There is nothing wrong with my sources. There are tax cheats on both sides of the aisles. Obama has surrounded himself with tax cheats. Rich families like the Kennedy's hide their money, too.

I would ask what tax cheats but you are mostly likely referring to some appointees who didn't pay some taxes owed but then did. But obviously you didn't read the link....I never said they were cheats and the link clearly indicates all of this was legal.

And this would be the second time you used the Kennedy example....sounds like a fixation to me.

Originally Posted by Bucco

I knew somebody might post this story. As a sports fan, I heard a lot on this the last few days, and I would be glad, if time permitted to find stories of folks ripping off the system and every time we hear it we get upset and rightfully so.

HOWEVER.....

In taking your advice to find sources...

"The highest earners pay the lion's share of the dollars Uncle Sam collects.

The top fifth of households made 56% of pre-tax income in 2006 but paid 86% of all individual income tax revenue collected, according to the most recent data available from the Congressional Budget Office.

Narrowing in further: The top 1% of households, which made 19% of pre-tax income, paid 39% of all individual income taxes.

The trend is similar if you count income taxes, social insurance taxes, excise taxes and corporate income taxes (such as capital gains) combined. The top fifth of households paid 69% of all federal taxes. The top 1% paid 28%."

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/15/pf/t...east/index.htm

"Percentiles Ranked by AGI
AGI Threshold on Percentiles
Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

Top 1%
$410,096
40.42

Top 5%
$160,041
60.63

Top 10%
$113,018
71.22

Top 25%
$66,532
86.59

Top 50%
$32,879
97.11

Bottom 50%
<$32,879
2.89

Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income

Source: Internal Revenue Service"http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pa...ome-taxes.html


In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—are significantly higher than they were in 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

The 2007 numbers show that the top 1 percent’s income and tax shares reached all-time highs for the third year in a row. That is likely to reverse direction when data from recessionary 2008 is published a year from now.

For the first time this year, we are also presenting data on the top 0.1% of tax returns (the top 10 percent of the top 1 percent). This 10 percent of the returns in the top 1 percent amounts to only 141,000 tax returns but accounts for nearly 12 percent of the adjusted gross income earned and approximately 20 percent of the nation's federal individual income taxes. The average income for a tax return in this top 0.1 percent is $7.4 million, while the average amount of income tax paid is $1.6 million, indicating an average effective individual income tax rate of 21.5 percent. This very top income group actually has a lower average effective tax rate than the rest of the top 1 percent of returns because these extremely high-income returns are more likely to have income from capital gains and dividends, which are typically taxed at lower rates. (Note that in the case of capital gains and dividends, in most cases the income has already been taxed once by the corporate income tax, which is not included here.)

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html


There are more sources, and lest you want to say how the Bush tax cuts or any tax cuts "favor" those who make more money....DUH.....of course it does when you cut taxes across the board. They are still paying the same percentage of what is paid.

Then you add the following...

"In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/t...axes/index.htm

Something my father told me very early in life is still true. He said in order to pay taxes you have to make money.... So I am ok that I pay more taxes than my sisters because I make 3 times the amount of money they make that is just rational. They got the stimulus check I did not...no big deal.

Some posts quote tax rates but that is just the tip of the iceburg...to rip off a phrase "Its the deductions stupid". (No personal reference intended"

Originally Posted by cologal

Something my father told me very early in life is still true. He said in order to pay taxes you have to make money.... So I am ok that I pay more taxes than my sisters because I make 3 times the amount of money they make that is just rational. They got the stimulus check I did not...no big deal.

Some posts quote tax rates but that is just the tip of the iceburg...to rip off a phrase "Its the deductions stupid". (No personal reference intended"

Another reason there is no jobs is because Obama said that he would increase taxes for people making over $250,000. Nothing like a little encouragement for people to strive to better themselves, huh?
There is an expression that has been making the rounds for a couple of years and it is called "Going Gault". That means business people and professionals like doctors and lawyers, have decided to stop making money once they reach the $250,000 plateau. They are cutting back and spending more time on personal pursuits like hobbys and family relations. Their incentives are on hold until the business climate changes. When the president of the United States sets a tone to penalize the people who make this country work, we are all in trouble.

cologal: The Kennedys are just a prime example of political hypocrisy - that's why people mention them.

The most egregious offense was when matriarch Rose Kennedy died. She'd spent her last couple of years in Massachusetts yet, upon her death, the family claimed FLORIDA residence to avoid paying MA estate taxes.

Evidently Ted Kennedy did the same thing, selling the compound in Hyannisport for $1.00 (estimated value between $5M and $8M depending on who you listen to) so that he qualified for Florida residency. I believe Florida tightened their laws since the Rose Kennedy 'stunt', hence the reason Ted might have had to sell.

The rich do not in any sense of the word make this country work.They do everything in their power to make sure they hold onto as much of their wealth and power as possible.Thats what they are supposed to do. Tax laws,investment laws,estate taxes all fovor the rich and punish the middle class. The rich by spreading the false notion that they are the jobs creators and by using their money to influence politicians have somehow talked some of you into feeling sorry for them. Well they don't feel sorry for you.
Djplong unwittingly made this arguement for me. The Kennedy reference is not important. What is important is the rich finding another loophole so they do not pay taxes.
Tax tables can be quoted until we are dead. Here is the only stat that matters......1984 the wealthy paid 50% tax rate and were doing quite well. 2010 the wealthy paid 16.6%tax rate and are laughing all the way to the bank with the money. I'm sorry not the bank ,no tax loopholes there.

Originally Posted by waynet

The rich do not in any sense of the word make this country work.They do everything in their power to make sure they hold onto as much of their wealth and power as possible.Thats what they are supposed to do. Tax laws,investment laws,estate taxes all fovor the rich and punish the middle class. The rich by spreading the false notion that they are the jobs creators and by using their money to influence politicians have somehow talked some of you into feeling sorry for them. Well they don't feel sorry for you.
Djplong unwittingly made this arguement for me. The Kennedy reference is not important. What is important is the rich finding another loophole so they do not pay taxes.
Tax tables can be quoted until we are dead. Here is the only stat that matters......1984 the wealthy paid 50% tax rate and were doing quite well. 2010 the wealthy paid 16.6%tax rate and are laughing all the way to the bank with the money. I'm sorry not the bank ,no tax loopholes there.

WAYNE.....with all due respect, you just say stuff !! You quote things totallly out of context.

You make very little sense !

Originally Posted by Bucco

WAYNE.....with all due respect, you just say stuff !! You quote things totallly out of context.

You make very little sense !

Apparently he did not read the real figures.

As a retired teacher I am very familar with the leftest rant. Wayne, the next time you go to a concert or other public event, in your home town, look at the program. The sponsors are corporations and wealthy individuals. I got so tired of listening to the teachers, in the teacher's lounge, moaning and groaning about how teacher were so mistreated and so under paid.

Originally Posted by Donna2

Another reason there is no jobs is because Obama said that he would increase taxes for people making over $250,000. Nothing like a little encouragement for people to strive to better themselves, huh?
There is an expression that has been making the rounds for a couple of years and it is called "Going Gault". That means business people and professionals like doctors and lawyers, have decided to stop making money once they reach the $250,000 plateau. They are cutting back and spending more time on personal pursuits like hobbys and family relations. Their incentives are on hold until the business climate changes. When the president of the United States sets a tone to penalize the people who make this country work, we are all in trouble.

Let me understand here.... No tax increases have occurred but just because Obama said he would increase taxes on people over $250,000 that is why this is a job less recovery? So what caused all the job losses in the last year of the Bush presidency?

I believe that the middle class is the engine of the economy...these are the people who have cut back and in many cases are down. Doctors and lawyers are still ok....

All we have to look at is the Wall Street bonuses which quote "Had to be paid due to contractual agreements" while the Union contract were thrown out to "save" the auto industry. Double standard....

Originally Posted by Sally Jo

As a retired teacher I am very familar with the leftest rant. Wayne, the next time you go to a concert or other public event, in your home town, look at the program. The sponsors are corporations and wealthy individuals. I got so tired of listening to the teachers, in the teacher's lounge, moaning and groaning about how teacher were so mistreated and so under paid.

Leftest....LOL another one going back to the 50's.

Originally Posted by djplong

cologal: The Kennedys are just a prime example of political hypocrisy - that's why people mention them.

The most egregious offense was when matriarch Rose Kennedy died. She'd spent her last couple of years in Massachusetts yet, upon her death, the family claimed FLORIDA residence to avoid paying MA estate taxes.

Evidently Ted Kennedy did the same thing, selling the compound in Hyannisport for $1.00 (estimated value between $5M and $8M depending on who you listen to) so that he qualified for Florida residency. I believe Florida tightened their laws since the Rose Kennedy 'stunt', hence the reason Ted might have had to sell.

Just why is it ok to respond that the Kennedy's did it to? That is the stock standard answer for both sides....Obama bashing is ok because Bush was bashed. Democrats using the filibuster brought out howls of "Up or Down vote" now a single senator held up all the outstanding nominations for a earmark. The Republicans used reconciliation what 21 times but it is wrong to use it for the Healthcare Bill? Is this kind of partisanship what the founding fathers envisioned? Does anyone win? Nope we all lose.

Originally Posted by cologal

Just why is it ok to respond that the Kennedy's did it to? That is the stock standard answer for both sides....Obama bashing is ok because Bush was bashed. Democrats using the filibuster brought out howls of "Up or Down vote" now a single senator held up all the outstanding nominations for a earmark. The Republicans used reconciliation what 21 times but it is wrong to use it for the Healthcare Bill? Is this kind of partisanship what the founding fathers envisioned? Does anyone win? Nope we all lose.

I don't think the founding fathers envisioned a socialist in the white house either.

Originally Posted by Donna2

I don't think the founding fathers envisioned a socialist in the white house either.

He is NOT a socialist.....he is a US citizen. Deal with it.