[Bay Kid]

Guns? No. We have way too many crazy people. The devil is in control.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The co-exist sticker means the person displaying it is open-minded and acknowledges that "other" is not a dirty word. Variety is the spice of life. Enjoy your white bread with unsalted butter.

See what you did there? You just made it personal. Thanks for the personal attack, that's what people do when they lose the logical argument and try to "win" on emotion and vitriol.

Your insinuation that I eat unsalted-buttered white bread is akin to calling me a "cracker." It is a racist inference indicating you may possess a racist perspective. Perhaps reflect on that a bit before making such an opinionated and vitriolic remark. I'm here to help you self-help yourself into a better person. You're welcome.

[Wyseguy]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Tulsa, OK, hospital, 4 killed.....what is the answer to these Killings

I so much want to have a serious discussion about this, but society today is not conducive to open, frank discussions.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I believe that the 2020 election was the safest in history.

A.) Your response did not answer the quoted question from post #168;
B.) Please tell me you're joking? All the muling, all the ballot harvesting, all the lost ballots found in conservative areas by the side of the freeway?

[Wyseguy]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

And do you have any suggestions for how to accomplish that? Because, while most people will agree those would be wonderful things to do, it doesn't help the walking dead people that will be murdered next week, and those the next week, etc etc etc.

We need suggestions of actions we can take now to help the situation.

Martin, can you come up with any plan that would achieve the goals set up in the prior post?

[ElDiabloJoe]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

That IS possibly true. But, it is happening that way in ALL other G-7 countries and they do NOT have a significant GUN problem like the US does.

Wait! I though you just said these things rarely happen in G-7 countries? Did you see what happened in Germany today? Probably wasn't mentioned on CNN. It isn't in their top 4 front-page stories under the "World" column or anywhere else on their front page that I could find.

Two Left Dead in Supermarket Shooting in Germany

[Taltarzac725]

That is probably a domestic violence crime. Man fatally shoots woman, then himself at German supermarket, police say

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe

Wait! I though you just said these things rarely happen in G-7 countries? Did you see what happened in Germany today? Probably wasn't mentioned on CNN. It isn't in their top 4 front-page stories under the "World" column or anywhere else on their front page that I could find.

Two Left Dead in Supermarket Shooting in Germany

[Wyseguy]

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe

See what you did there? You just made it personal. Thanks for the personal attack, that's what people do when they lose the logical argument and try to "win" on emotion and vitriol.

Your insinuation that I eat unsalted-buttered white bread is akin to calling me a "cracker." It is a racist inference indicating you may possess a racist perspective. Perhaps reflect on that a bit before making such an opinionated and vitriolic remark. I'm here to help you self-help yourself into a better person. You're welcome.

It is horrible how that other person just attacked you. No one deserves to be bullied like that.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Good point. It has always been interesting that the anti-gun people reject ANY answer or solution that does NOT ban (this time around, anyway) "assault" weapons.

The irony is that they could ban all sales of AR-15 -type weapons and it would make absolutely no difference at all in these crackpots committing these shootings. AR-15s have the shock value when seen but there are other, more efficient weapons (if you're looking for a more "efficient" way to kill a bunch of people) that are perfectly legal and in the hands of millions of people. Just one example: the Federal Government unloaded hundreds of thousands of M1 Carbines after WW II, a semi-auto that comes stock with a 20-round cartridge but 30 round cartridges are available: KCI makes them and they are cheap. You can do even more damage with the M1 Carbine than with the AR-15 especially at close ranges: the bullet is twice as heavy as that fired from the AR style weapons and they come in all sorts of configurations. Hornady makes a 115-grain hollow-point "critical defense" round, and there are rounds similar to that that are excellent deer-killers. And that is only ONE example of a readily-available means of causing mayhem that would outdo the AR-15 - type weapons. There are many others.

The more I think of it, the more it seems that the children are the pawns here. Banning AR-15 type weapons won't protect them. So why not take the steps that DO protect them?

You are saying that NOTHING can be done to prevent MASS shootings and murders because if the AR-15 style rifle was banned then another model of rifle could take its place. That is ALL incorrect because Australia and New Zealand HAVE already (since about 1985) SOLVED their MASS MURDER problem - and look no further than Canada which is currently SOLVING its GUN murder PROBLEM. So, that PROVES that what you wrote IS incorrect. The US IS the only 1st world nation with a mass GUN murder problem. And the PROBLEM is going to get WORSE as the summer continues.
..........The whole idea that US Citizens should be able to own UNLIMITED types of GUNS is a mindset that is NOT shared by the UK and all other western nations. Their citizens do NOT have to FEAR gathering ing groups like for adults at church or for children at school. They ELIMINATED all those fears by simply banning certain CLASSES of GUNS. It instantly dropped their GUN crimes to near ZERO. In those nations, GUNS were NOT eliminated, just the types of GUNS most likely to be used to shoot up a large crowd or do drive-by shootings.
........As to the M1 carbine being a BETTER man-killer than the AR-15. Just NOT true. The M1 carbine IS a GOOD man-killer, but not as good as the AR-15. The M1 carbine is a military weapon designed to have low recoil so that it was easy for a soldier to get used to the recoil and become proficient with it. The AR-15 has even lower recoil......advantage AR-15. The M1 carbine uses a LOW-VELOCITY pistol cartridge that limits its effective range due to bullet drop to about 200 yards. The AR-15 uses a HIGH-VELOCITY rifle cartridge with an effective range of 550 yards with less bullet drop. ........advantage AR-15 again! The high-velocity of the AR as compared to the M-1 causes a greater WOUND channel in soft human tissue. Again advantage AR-15 as a MILITARY man-killing weapon of war.
..........BOTH the AR-15 and the M1 carbine are banned by ALL the civilized nations of the world except the US for use by CIVILIANS.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

I so much want to have a serious discussion about this, but society today is not conducive to open, frank discussions.

Don't even try, you will be attacked. Ask me how I know.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

Martin, can you come up with any plan that would achieve the goals set up in the prior post?

I posted numerous plans in both this and the other previous thread. I was accused of spamming them threads with nonsense. And no discussion, only attacks, many personal. In fact, half of my points were those promoted by conservatives. I learned a lot about gun control here, but you see I am a liberal, so nothing I say, even when I agree with conservatives gets any attention other to be attacked.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

You are saying that NOTHING can be done to prevent MASS shootings and murders because if the AR-15 style rifle was banned then another model of rifle could take its place. That is ALL incorrect because Australia and New Zealand HAVE already (since about 1985) SOLVED their MASS MURDER problem - and look no further than Canada which is currently SOLVING its GUN murder PROBLEM. So, that PROVES that what you wrote IS incorrect. The US IS the only 1st world nation with a mass GUN murder problem. And the PROBLEM is going to get WORSE as the summer continues.
..........The whole idea that US Citizens should be able to own UNLIMITED types of GUNS is a mindset that is NOT shared by the UK and all other western nations. Their citizens do NOT have to FEAR gathering ing groups like for adults at church or for children at school. They ELIMINATED all those fears by simply banning certain CLASSES of GUNS. It instantly dropped their GUN crimes to near ZERO. In those nations, GUNS were NOT eliminated, just the types of GUNS most likely to be used to shoot up a large crowd or do drive-by shootings.
........As to the M1 carbine being a BETTER man-killer than the AR-15. Just NOT true. The M1 carbine IS a GOOD man-killer, but not as good as the AR-15. The M1 carbine is a military weapon designed to have low recoil so that it was easy for a soldier to get used to the recoil and become proficient with it. The AR-15 has even lower recoil......advantage AR-15. The M1 carbine uses a LOW-VELOCITY pistol cartridge that limits its effective range due to bullet drop to about 200 yards. The AR-15 uses a HIGH-VELOCITY rifle cartridge with an effective range of 550 yards with less bullet drop. ........advantage AR-15 again! The high-velocity of the AR as compared to the M-1 causes a greater WOUND channel in soft human tissue. Again advantage AR-15 as a MILITARY man-killing weapon of war.
..........BOTH the AR-15 and the M1 carbine are banned by ALL the civilized nations of the world except the US for use by CIVILIANS.

"THEY" know all that, "THEY" don't care. You are wasting your pixels.

[Wyseguy]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Also, the US has the highest % of incarcerated people. So, maybe there is NOT enough rehabilitation going on in US prisons. The US may see a criminal as a "throw-away" resource, while other countries may see a criminal as a"renewable" resource.

Perhaps we need to be more aware and selective as to who is coming into the US. Local and State governments tend not to provide incarceration rates for illegal immigrants. What we do have is a study and report prepared by the DOJ/DHS in 2018.
Immigrants accounted for more than 30 percent of the federal prison population. Let us take care of our fellow citizens who are dealing with homelessness, hunger, poverty, before we allow others to enter illegally.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

Perhaps we need to be more aware and selective as to who is coming into the US. Local and State governments tend not to provide incarceration rates for illegal immigrants. What we do have is a study and report prepared by the DOJ/DHS in 2018.
Immigrants accounted for more than 30 percent of the federal prison population. Let us take care of our fellow citizens who are dealing with homelessness, hunger, poverty, before we allow others to enter illegally.

According to CATO research:

(All immigrants refers to illegal and legal)

"All immigrants have a lower criminal incarceration rate and there are lower crime rates in the neighborhoods where they live, according to the near-unanimous findings of the peer-reviewed evidence. Since 1911, large nationwide federal immigration commissions have asked whether immigrants are more crime-prone than native-born Americans and each one of them answered no, even when the rest of their reports unjustifiably blamed immigrants for virtually every problem in the United States. From the 1911 Immigration Commission, also known as the Dillingham Commission, to the 1931 Wickersham Commission, and 1994’s Barbara Jordan Commission, each has reported that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than native-born Americans."

That was from 2018, since you referenced a 2018 data. There are more recent studies that show the same. In 2019 these numbers were released: At least 13% of the federal prison population, and 30% of the Federal Marshalls detention are illegal aliens. Federal Marshall's don't hold many other types of prisoners.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe

A.) Your response did not answer the quoted question from post #168;
B.) Please tell me you're joking? All the muling, all the ballot harvesting, all the lost ballots found in conservative areas by the side of the freeway?

Sorry, all those allegations of voter fraud were INTENSELY looked into and DISPROVED. Even the then-Attorney General Bill Barr stated that there was NO significant voter fraud in the 2020 election. As I stated previously......the 2020 election was the most FRAUD-FREE election in modern history!
..........If someone wants to disagree about this, they should disagree with Bill Barr, not me!