[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

I so much want to have a serious discussion about this, but society today is not conducive to open, frank discussions.

Yes, today we have polarized sides and group tension. Russia has done this around the world for the last 20 years. Besides oil, Russia exports propaganda. Notice how the GUN issue has divided the US.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

That is probably a domestic violence crime. Man fatally shoots woman, then himself at German supermarket, police say

It RARELY happens in the other G-7 nations AS COMPARED to the US.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

"THEY" know all that, "THEY" don't care. You are wasting your pixels.

Yes, people here like to break other people's pixels!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

Perhaps we need to be more aware and selective as to who is coming into the US. Local and State governments tend not to provide incarceration rates for illegal immigrants. What we do have is a study and report prepared by the DOJ/DHS in 2018.
Immigrants accounted for more than 30 percent of the federal prison population. Let us take care of our fellow citizens who are dealing with homelessness, hunger, poverty, before we allow others to enter illegally.

I agree!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

According to CATO research:

(All immigrants refers to illegal and legal)

"All immigrants have a lower criminal incarceration rate and there are lower crime rates in the neighborhoods where they live, according to the near-unanimous findings of the peer-reviewed evidence. Since 1911, large nationwide federal immigration commissions have asked whether immigrants are more crime-prone than native-born Americans and each one of them answered no, even when the rest of their reports unjustifiably blamed immigrants for virtually every problem in the United States. From the 1911 Immigration Commission, also known as the Dillingham Commission, to the 1931 Wickersham Commission, and 1994’s Barbara Jordan Commission, each has reported that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than native-born Americans."

That was from 2018, since you referenced a 2018 data. There are more recent studies that show the same. In 2019 these numbers were released: At least 13% of the federal prison population, and 30% of the Federal Marshalls detention are illegal aliens. Federal Marshall's don't hold many other types of prisoners.

The overriding problem is that our TOTAL infrastructure and government services can NOT adequately handle our TOTAL population. No wonder we have polarization and groups hating other groups. And that hatred leading to GUN violence and that FEAR driving up GUN sales. We have just emerged from the inability to solve the Covid crisis due to nationwide polarization. There is a Covid surge in Florida right now and it is being ignored by our so-called leaders.
............Increased GUN sales are NOT going to make for a peaceful summer, just the opposite!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

Perhaps we need to be more aware and selective as to who is coming into the US. Local and State governments tend not to provide incarceration rates for illegal immigrants. What we do have is a study and report prepared by the DOJ/DHS in 2018.
Immigrants accounted for more than 30 percent of the federal prison population. Let us take care of our fellow citizens who are dealing with homelessness, hunger, poverty, before we allow others to enter illegally.

Who's going to do all the landscaping work then? Who will flip the burgers at the fast food joints? Also - if you <allow> people to enter, then they're not entering illegally. That is a logical fallacy. If you allow them, then they're here with permission. That makes their entry legal, not illegal.

Meanwhile, immigrants do most of the grunt work in this country, because most American citizens refuse to do it. You want tomatoes for under $8/lb? Then accept that it's probably a Mexican picking the tomato off the vine at agricultural wages (which is sub-minimum).

At least they're willing to do the work.

[golfing eagles]

217 posts. Somebody needs to shoot this thread.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The overriding problem is that our TOTAL infrastructure and government services can NOT adequately handle our TOTAL population. No wonder we have polarization and groups hating other groups. And that hatred leading to GUN violence and that FEAR driving up GUN sales. We have just emerged from the inability to solve the Covid crisis due to nationwide polarization. There is a Covid surge in Florida right now and it is being ignored by our so-called leaders.
............Increased GUN sales are NOT going to make for a peaceful summer, just the opposite!

All true, but not because we can't, but because a group has been trying to "starve the beast" since the 1950's.

And at this point, there is no way to collect all the guns, so with ONLY 400 million in circulation no matter what we do right now, it is not going to be peaceful anytime soon. And there is a good chance, some want more violence - I know Putin will be thrill to watch us kill each other.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Who's going to do all the landscaping work then? Who will flip the burgers at the fast food joints? Also - if you <allow> people to enter, then they're not entering illegally. That is a logical fallacy. If you allow them, then they're here with permission. That makes their entry legal, not illegal.

Meanwhile, immigrants do most of the grunt work in this country, because most American citizens refuse to do it. You want tomatoes for under $8/lb? Then accept that it's probably a Mexican picking the tomato off the vine at agricultural wages (which is sub-minimum).

At least they're willing to do the work.

Farmers have repeatedly tried to hire American's to do the field work, and they typically last a day or two. You are right. Who will work the fields. But, the good news is, if not no one does the prices of food will skyrocket, and well, all the people here will have more things to bitch about.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Farmers have repeatedly tried to hire American's to do the field work, and they typically last a day or two. You are right. Who will work the fields. But, the good news is, if not no one does the prices of food will skyrocket, and well, all the people here will have more things to bitch about.

Perhaps some sort of migrant worker program , come to the US for a short stay , leave when the seasonal work is done , take your pay back to your home country, brings much needed money there, I think if the problems of abusing that sort of system could be worked out it could benefit all parties, but then it works out better politically just to be very non selective as to who comes into our country

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

Perhaps some sort of migrant worker program , come to the US for a short stay , leave when the seasonal work is done , take your pay back to your home country, brings much needed money there, I think if the problems of abusing that sort of system could be worked out it could benefit all parties, but then it works out better politically just to be very non selective as to who comes into our country

Yes, there was a work visa program, I don't know if it still exists.

The main problem with our current system (in my not so humble opinion) is the court system is almost completely underfunded. The result is people come here and claim asylum, which is legal, and they get scheduled for a hearing usually 2 or 3 years later. Since we also don't have housing for a couple of million people waiting for their hearing, they are released and instructed to come back on their hearing date.

We need an overhaul of the court system, so someone comes in, they have 1 week to prepare their case, and they get a hearing. If they can stay they are given asylum, if their claim is denied they should be deported.

The problem with that is that it might actually work, but then the politicians would lose that talking point at the next election.

Just like the mass shooting issue. It could be fixed, but it won't be. That is another talking point politicians can run on. They have to keep us hating each other in order to stay in office.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Who's going to do all the landscaping work then? Who will flip the burgers at the fast food joints? Also - if you <allow> people to enter, then they're not entering illegally. That is a logical fallacy. If you allow them, then they're here with permission. That makes their entry legal, not illegal.

Meanwhile, immigrants do most of the grunt work in this country, because most American citizens refuse to do it. You want tomatoes for under $8/lb? Then accept that it's probably a Mexican picking the tomato off the vine at agricultural wages (which is sub-minimum).

At least they're willing to do the work.

Actually, there is a machine that can pick tomatoes. It is a large capital expense that the land owners are reluctant to pay because they have cheap human labor. But, if they did make that capital investment, in the long term tomatoes would be cheaper to the consumer.
..........The US is on the verge of using A.I. and robotics to transform just about all industries - even McDonalds'. So, if the US government was planning ahead, it would want to restrict immigration to the legal variety and mainly "rocket -scientist-types".

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

217 posts. Somebody needs to shoot this thread.

Then the question becomes, is it better to shoot it with a semi-automatic rifle or a bolt-action? Or beat it to death with a pitching wedge?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Actually, there is a machine that can pick tomatoes. It is a large capital expense that the land owners are reluctant to pay because they have cheap human labor. But, if they did make that capital investment, in the long term tomatoes would be cheaper to the consumer.
..........The US is on the verge of using A.I. and robotics to transform just about all industries - even McDonalds'. So, if the US government was planning ahead, it would want to restrict immigration to the legal variety and mainly "rocket -scientist-types".

If you are interested in real information about AI and its impact on the labor force, I highly recommend Stanford University's HAI program. You can go to their site or just go to Youtube and search. It is an international program that discusses current events and trends and predictions on when and where and how much various employment positions will be affected.

It also has discussions with leaders in major employment industries on what can be done to minimize the impact on existing employees.

LOTS of good information, but don't look for sound bites. Most discussions are hours long.

[MartinSE]

And why is it some want threads closed that are still in line with the rules?

If you don't like a thread you don't have to click on it. If there are a lot of posts, it would seem to me that means some people still find it interesting. If you don't like a poster, you can block them.