[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee

I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the NRA meeting being held in Orlando this week (I believe) is a GUN FREE ZONE

So why do you think that might be? If they believe guns are safe and everyone should have one, why not at their annual parade?

I'm pretty sure it is not because the NRA people might be carrying but because of the possibility of anti-gun crazies disrupting things. There are some pretty fringy people in Orlando.

I've attended several pro-Second Amendment rallies. One in particular that I recall was held on the grounds of the State Capitol Building in St. Paul, Minnesota. It was sponsored and organized by the NRA, which also had several display booths. It was attended by about 3,000 pro-Second Amendment folks, and most of us were armed. Many openly (open carry is legal in Minnesota). There were some pretty well-known dignitaries present as well: a Congressman and several Minnesota State Legislative members.

Oh--and there were cops there too. Four in total. Three of them, Minnesota State Troopers, were stationed on the sidewalk ringing the rally, facing AWAY from it, on the watch for demonstrators (who never showed up). The fourth, a uniformed St. Paul cop, was present with the attendees, but he was spending his time chatting, looking at exhibits, and generally having as good a time as the rest of us.

The cops knew where the danger was, and it wasn't from the 3,000 or so armed rally attendees but from the nutjobs who might try to disrupt things. My guess it is the same in Orlando.

[Taltarzac725]

Probably patients with this you would not want having access to any kind of firearm. Quite a Red Flag situation.

Capgras delusion - Wikipedia

[jswirs]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

I mean no disrespect regarding the two posts I highlighted above. There were several to choose from that are factually inaccurate and typify much of the rhetoric today. The majority of people screaming for more gun control are not knowledgeable about firearms.

The fact of the matter is, the AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for school shooters. The handgun is used 10 times more often. As a general note, it doesn't even rank in the top ten for weapons of straight out murder. AR style rifles account for an average of 17 murders over the past ten years. Blunt objects such as hammers and bats are used more often. The common denominator with school shooters are they are individuals who have been traumatized, bullied, marginalized, etc.



Some people believe AR stands for Assault Rifle. It does not. The AR line of firearms were manufactured by Armalite Rifles.
The AR has been around since the 1950's. Today it is popular with hunters and sport shooters alike. The AR does seem to frighten people who don't know anything about guns, whereas the Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle doesn't bother them. The fact is, they both fire the .223/5.56 round with the same capacity magazines, at the same rate of fire which is one round for one trigger pull. The AR is a scary black rifle and the Ruger looks like Grandpa's pickup gun in his gun rack.

The second quoted post above calls the AR and assault weapon and considers it a weapon of war. Neither is true. The military version of the civilian AR is the M-16, a fully automatic rifle. The AR is not fully automatic. Nobody has a definition of assault rifle. It is a term used to frighten people. Never has the US soldier carried an AR-15 into battle. Our soldiers carry the M-16, among others.

The problem is not just that the average citizens doesn't know the facts, the problem is even bigger because many of our politicians don't know the facts, or conveniently twist the facts to suit their agenda and that is a bigger problem still. In my opinion, Legislators should have mandatory education on the important issues they draft laws to govern. Within the United States we have over 300,000 laws related to firearms. As noted, many are not enforced. That is a huge problem. Fun fact: Nobody knows how many laws there are in total in the US. That seems like a system out of control.

It is disturbing to me how little the average American knows about our freedom documents and the reasons our Founding Fathers created this Constitutional Republic of the people and for the people. In my personal library I have over 70 books on this subject. The oldest printed in 1785, Samuel Johnson's Dictionary. The very dictionary our Founding Fathers used to write the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Addressing the second quoted post above I'll limit this to the 2nd Amendment. There is history to the Bill of Rights but I'll save that for another discussion. We shall use the text as it currently appears.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The second quoted post above erroneously connects some imaginary dots that the guns of the militia should be regulated and our country does not regulate guns. Both assertions are false. First, there are many regulations on guns, at the Federal and State levels. The CZ Shadow 9mm handgun is one of my favorites. Try buying one in California. Hint: You can't buy a new CZ Shadow 2 because it is not on CA "approved roster of handguns".

Let's break down the second amendment. "A well regulated militia"...the definition of a militia in 1787 "the part of the community trained to martial exercise." The militia should be well regulated. The definition of "regulate" was to "direct". Therefore, another way of saying the first portion is "A well directed part of the community trained to martial exercise". The definition of "martial" is "war like".

"Being necessary for the security of a free State". This portion is very basic. There were 13 states at the time of the writing of our Constitution. The very much valued their freedom and intended to retain the freedom they fought 8 bloody years for.

"The right of the People to keep and bear Arms". So many on the left of center seem to not understand this. What is the Right? To keep and bear arms. To keep Arms means to hold and keep in custody. To bear arms means to carry arms. Who owns that Right? The People, not the State and not the militia as an entity, but the People. Arms means armaments as in armor for defense and weapons for offense.

"Shall not be infringed". Infringe means to violate, to destroy, to hinder.

Our Founding Fathers feared and did not favor a standing army. They had just won their independence fighting the British Regulars, the standing army of Britain. When the British moved to disarm the Americans on April 19, 1775 at Lexington and Concord, it was not George Washington's army who met them. It was the militias of that area. Bakers, farmers, blacksmiths, shop keepers, etc. stood firm against the most feared military of their time and refused to surrender their weapons.

Today our media demonizes the word militia. it is easy to understand why. The American citizen is actually the largest armed force in the world. There are many who wish to destroy that. It begins with undermining our Rights, infringing on our Rights, and taking away our Rights.


To the school shootings and other mass shootings. Prior to the internet, mass shootings were very rare. It would be interesting to track the rise of social media and the rise of mass shootings. Young people have been kept isolated for the past two years due to a disease that is 99.6% survivable. Young people spent and inordinate amount of time on social media platforms. Touching another human being is being replaced with keypads. Looking another human being in the eye and reading their body language as been replaced by a monitor. Netflix is full of violent movies and rarely post up a comedy or romance. Take a young man, bully him online, keep him isolated so he doesn't know his self worth, fail to instill morals and then let him binge watch John Wick movies and play hour upon hour of Call of Duty. The outcome is predictable. There will be more mass killings by mentally ill people. We are doing nothing to identify them and treat them. Many want to blame the instrument instead of the societal failings of our culture. The list of reasons for killing someone or many is actually a pretty short list. Mass shooters are particularly mentally ill. I suspect in their mind being famous or infamous is one in the same. Their name will be known. I will say that predators do measure Risk versus Reward. It should come as no surprise that they choose Gun Free Zones to inflict as much carnage as they can before they are stopped.

Note: I had plenty of links for citations I listed above, but being a new poster here it would not post.

All so very well said, and so very true. I THANK YOU, SARAH, SO VERY MUCH.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Double BS.

Total nonsense.
UK is way down the list on world crime, and last school shooting was 1996.
Then guns were banned.
Gun crime now is mainly drug gangs killing each other, which as far as majority of population is concerned, save a lot of money on paperwork, and feeding them in prison.

Bingo! I certainly don't see gang members killing each other as a negative thing.

[rogerk]

More gun regulations will not change the outcome. Enforce the laws on the books. Switzerland has one of the lowest murder rates. They also require every man and woman to own a gun and know how to use it. Now that might be an interesting idea. Why do most mass shootings occur in gun free zones? Something to think about.

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by Keefelane66

Weapons are PROHIBITED at all NRA CONVENTIONS!

Well this was a rumor that even Snopes flagged as false back in 2016 (link).

Additionally, here is the NRA firearms policy (link). Can they be banned? Yes as in this case with President Trump attending (and in 2018 when Vice President Pence gave a speech).

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

I mean no disrespect regarding the two posts I highlighted above. There were several to choose from that are factually inaccurate and typify much of the rhetoric today. The majority of people screaming for more gun control are not knowledgeable about firearms.

The fact of the matter is, the AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for school shooters. The handgun is used 10 times more often. As a general note, it doesn't even rank in the top ten for weapons of straight out murder. AR style rifles account for an average of 17 murders over the past ten years. Blunt objects such as hammers and bats are used more often. The common denominator with school shooters are they are individuals who have been traumatized, bullied, marginalized, etc.



Some people believe AR stands for Assault Rifle. It does not. The AR line of firearms were manufactured by Armalite Rifles.
The AR has been around since the 1950's. Today it is popular with hunters and sport shooters alike. The AR does seem to frighten people who don't know anything about guns, whereas the Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle doesn't bother them. The fact is, they both fire the .223/5.56 round with the same capacity magazines, at the same rate of fire which is one round for one trigger pull. The AR is a scary black rifle and the Ruger looks like Grandpa's pickup gun in his gun rack.

The second quoted post above calls the AR and assault weapon and considers it a weapon of war. Neither is true. The military version of the civilian AR is the M-16, a fully automatic rifle. The AR is not fully automatic. Nobody has a definition of assault rifle. It is a term used to frighten people. Never has the US soldier carried an AR-15 into battle. Our soldiers carry the M-16, among others.

The problem is not just that the average citizens doesn't know the facts, the problem is even bigger because many of our politicians don't know the facts, or conveniently twist the facts to suit their agenda and that is a bigger problem still. In my opinion, Legislators should have mandatory education on the important issues they draft laws to govern. Within the United States we have over 300,000 laws related to firearms. As noted, many are not enforced. That is a huge problem. Fun fact: Nobody knows how many laws there are in total in the US. That seems like a system out of control.

It is disturbing to me how little the average American knows about our freedom documents and the reasons our Founding Fathers created this Constitutional Republic of the people and for the people. In my personal library I have over 70 books on this subject. The oldest printed in 1785, Samuel Johnson's Dictionary. The very dictionary our Founding Fathers used to write the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Addressing the second quoted post above I'll limit this to the 2nd Amendment. There is history to the Bill of Rights but I'll save that for another discussion. We shall use the text as it currently appears.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The second quoted post above erroneously connects some imaginary dots that the guns of the militia should be regulated and our country does not regulate guns. Both assertions are false. First, there are many regulations on guns, at the Federal and State levels. The CZ Shadow 9mm handgun is one of my favorites. Try buying one in California. Hint: You can't buy a new CZ Shadow 2 because it is not on CA "approved roster of handguns".

Let's break down the second amendment. "A well regulated militia"...the definition of a militia in 1787 "the part of the community trained to martial exercise." The militia should be well regulated. The definition of "regulate" was to "direct". Therefore, another way of saying the first portion is "A well directed part of the community trained to martial exercise". The definition of "martial" is "war like".

"Being necessary for the security of a free State". This portion is very basic. There were 13 states at the time of the writing of our Constitution. The very much valued their freedom and intended to retain the freedom they fought 8 bloody years for.

"The right of the People to keep and bear Arms". So many on the left of center seem to not understand this. What is the Right? To keep and bear arms. To keep Arms means to hold and keep in custody. To bear arms means to carry arms. Who owns that Right? The People, not the State and not the militia as an entity, but the People. Arms means armaments as in armor for defense and weapons for offense.

"Shall not be infringed". Infringe means to violate, to destroy, to hinder.

Our Founding Fathers feared and did not favor a standing army. They had just won their independence fighting the British Regulars, the standing army of Britain. When the British moved to disarm the Americans on April 19, 1775 at Lexington and Concord, it was not George Washington's army who met them. It was the militias of that area. Bakers, farmers, blacksmiths, shop keepers, etc. stood firm against the most feared military of their time and refused to surrender their weapons.

Today our media demonizes the word militia. it is easy to understand why. The American citizen is actually the largest armed force in the world. There are many who wish to destroy that. It begins with undermining our Rights, infringing on our Rights, and taking away our Rights.


To the school shootings and other mass shootings. Prior to the internet, mass shootings were very rare. It would be interesting to track the rise of social media and the rise of mass shootings. Young people have been kept isolated for the past two years due to a disease that is 99.6% survivable. Young people spent and inordinate amount of time on social media platforms. Touching another human being is being replaced with keypads. Looking another human being in the eye and reading their body language as been replaced by a monitor. Netflix is full of violent movies and rarely post up a comedy or romance. Take a young man, bully him online, keep him isolated so he doesn't know his self worth, fail to instill morals and then let him binge watch John Wick movies and play hour upon hour of Call of Duty. The outcome is predictable. There will be more mass killings by mentally ill people. We are doing nothing to identify them and treat them. Many want to blame the instrument instead of the societal failings of our culture. The list of reasons for killing someone or many is actually a pretty short list. Mass shooters are particularly mentally ill. I suspect in their mind being famous or infamous is one in the same. Their name will be known. I will say that predators do measure Risk versus Reward. It should come as no surprise that they choose Gun Free Zones to inflict as much carnage as they can before they are stopped.

Note: I had plenty of links for citations I listed above, but being a new poster here it would not post.

Originally Posted by jswirs

All so very well said, and so very true. I THANK YOU, SARAH, SO VERY MUCH.

I'd like to add my thanks as well.

[ThirdOfFive]

[QUOTE=Sarah_W;2099233]Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

Etc........

Excellent, well-written post. I didn't paste the whole post here but I DID print it. Lots of good information there.

One thing I inferred from the post is something that I believe very strongly; and that is that the excess emotion by the people who favor far stricter laws and controls actually hinders, rather than helps, the debate. And yes. There are many (far too many) who use a public display of emotion all too often accompanied by twisted claims and interpretations that are used to increase the emotion level of the public for their own gain. Such shenanigans solve nothing.

What is needed is reason, an actual KNOWLEDGE of the facts rather than just mindlessly repeating words designed to inflame rather than inform, and a willingness to look beyond our own prejudices. We don't have a gun problem. We have a people problem. And until we recognize and deal with THAT, things will just get worse.

[Heytubes]

Guess I can sue car manufacturers when a drunk drive kills someone.

[Kgcetm]

No one is afraid of the punishment any more. Do gooders have constructed a prison life that many just don’t want to leave. The process time between crime and punishment is too long and the accommodations too nice.

[Scbang]

Originally Posted by BevEnglish

Guns don’t kill unless a person pulls the trigger. Guns aren’t a carcinogen like tobacco. These kinds of things are products of perhaps too many violent video games, lack of proper parenting (instilling values and morals), lax or no punishment for crimes, and I could go on and on. My parents would have whipped me until I couldn’t stand up if I’d acted like some of these kids do these days. Parents just don’t discipline because they are a generation who didn’t get disciplined either.

You would think that 18 year old Texas kid had guts and energy to stab 19 children and 2 teachers to death.

I rest my case. Can you kill with no guns? Absolutely. but as I said earlier, it's how many and how fast you kill that isolates these horrible cases from other murders.

Sadness

[Scbang]

Originally Posted by GATORBILL66

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We need tougher penalties for all crimes including the death penalty for murder,

Many mass murders kill themselves after shooting. I don't think they were afraid to die.
Death penalty for them means nothing. We can give one death penalty for every single murder. What penalty would you give then to the dead Texas kid if he didn't get shot and killed?

Sadness.

[Scbang]

Originally Posted by spd2918

I would like to see your source for this. Mi e came from Timeline of Worldwide School and Mass Shootings

Rules at the venue or for insurance.

It's dictated by Secret Service to protect you know who scheduled to speak there.
It should have been "Everybody is required to carry some kind of guns".

Sad.

[Scbang]

Originally Posted by Caymus

I wondered why the Border Patrol was involved.

Many of the cops and/or soldiers do not have actual gun battle experience. They will more likely be hiding than trying to shoot the killer. Border patrol guys probably have enough experience with live bullets flying. Long time ago, I passed a live shooting robbery scene and the only cop who really was aiming and shooting was a Vietnam Vet. I read the Texas school security guard did not do anything to stop this massacre and there is absolutely no proof that armed school guard reduces school gun violence.
That is $1B/yr wasted because someone has to say we are doing something.

Sadness

[Scbang]

Originally Posted by dewilson58 View Post
Almost correct.

Hunters in Japan can have guns.

The low murder rate is culture driven, not gun control driven.

Originally Posted by MollyJo

Right. They will not dishonor their families. The life lessons begin at birth…

Japan has a quite bloody history ( If you watched any Samurai war movies ). It is true hunters can have a hunting gun but it is very difficult to get a permit. It has to be unloaded and locked in. If any high level dignitaries come to town, you have to bring your gun to local police station to be locked up till he/she is gone. It is not cultural but I admit, if you did not have guns for so long ( Since the end of WW2 ) it probably became cultural by now..

Sadness