[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by melpetezrinski

I replied to your statement of "vaxx'ed people are NOW dying at a greater rate". So, this is a specific point in time, NOW. However, you tried to back up your opinion by referencing TO DATE information. How is that relevant? You need to take data that encompasses more recent information. Can we at least agree with that variable? Here is an example:

Deaths Among Older Adults Due to COVID-19 Jumped During the Summer of 2022 Before Falling Somewhat in September | KFF

"To Date" info is the most current info they have...

What do you want me to use? Only yesterday's data?

[melpetezrinski]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

"To Date" info is the most current info they have...

What do you want me to use? Only yesterday's data?

No not “only yesterday’s data” How about, oh I don’t know, August 2022? Maybe because that is the timeframe in the article that YOU posted (#50). It said, "people who had been vaccinated or boosted made up 58% of COVID-19 deaths in August." IN AUGUST. ONE MONTH! I can’t believe you thought this meant “to date” or “as of”, which means from the start of the pandemic until now. So, now you can go back to my post #60 and understand the percentages better. Just don’t look at your reply, which was post 61. You said 48% of the people who are dying are over 65. Where did you get that #? Was it from your first link? Did you just total 65-74 years – 22.4% and 75-84 years – 26% to get 48%. Did you forget to expand the chart to include 85+ years, which is another 27%? Also, not to reiterate the obvious, but this chart is AS OF, so start of pandemic and NOT just August 2022.

To quote yourself,
“thanks for playing”

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Whitley

Do the chinese know this. From the LA Times:

At the end of August, police in China’s Hunan province came to the home of Zhang Jianping. They questioned him about why he had not been vaccinated against COVID-19, and took him by car to a hospital.

Zhang said he was very clear that he did not want to be immunized. “I am not informed. I do not consent,” he says he told the authorities. But they held down his arms and legs and forcibly injected him.

That is an op-ed based on something the author of the story saw posted on social media. There was no fact-checking done - and none needed because it was an opinion piece. You can tell it was an opinion piece because right at the top of the story is the word "Opinion."

If this had actually happened, then yes it would've been horrible. But there is no evidence that it actually happened. There isn't even any reference to WHICH social media venue the author found their information from.

In this op-ed, the author goes on to say that the government of China promoted an 80% vaccination rate. That is true, from various sources easily found with a simple google search. But equally true is the Beijing mandate only lasted two days and was eliminated basically due to lack of interest (it's more complicated than that, but that's the tl;dr version).

All references to Jhang Jianping's "experience" are sourced with this singular op-ed piece.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Whitley

People stand in line at a coronavirus testing site in Beijing on July 2.
Mark Schiefelbein/AP
Hong Kong
CNN
—
Beijing on July 2nd announced a Covid-19 vaccine mandate for residents to enter public venues, becoming the first city in mainland China to do so as it attempts to contain a highly infectious Omicron subvariant.

From July 11, people will need to show proof of vaccination to enter a wide range of public places in the Chinese capital, including cinemas, libraries, museums, gyms, stadiums and training centers, a city health official told a news briefing Wednesday.

That was a single city that tried a mandate, and it failed two days later. People who chose not to vaccinate weren't allowed in to those cinemas, libraries, and other public places in Beijing, but after that second day of failure, they were not forced to vaccinate, OR to stay home. They just couldn't go to those specific places if they made that decision for themselves.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That was a single city that tried a mandate, and it failed two days later. People who chose not to vaccinate weren't allowed in to those cinemas, libraries, and other public places in Beijing, but after that second day of failure, they were not forced to vaccinate, OR to stay home. They just couldn't go to those specific places if they made that decision for themselves.

??? Where are you getting your information? Thousands of articles like this one exist.

In Shanghai, residential gates are locked and millions are running low on food | CNN

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by melpetezrinski

No not “only yesterday’s data” How about, oh I don’t know, August 2022? Maybe because that is the timeframe in the article that YOU posted (#50). It said, "people who had been vaccinated or boosted made up 58% of COVID-19 deaths in August." IN AUGUST. ONE MONTH! I can’t believe you thought this meant “to date” or “as of”, which means from the start of the pandemic until now. So, now you can go back to my post #60 and understand the percentages better. Just don’t look at your reply, which was post 61. You said 48% of the people who are dying are over 65. Where did you get that #? Was it from your first link? Did you just total 65-74 years – 22.4% and 75-84 years – 26% to get 48%. Did you forget to expand the chart to include 85+ years, which is another 27%? Also, not to reiterate the obvious, but this chart is AS OF, so start of pandemic and NOT just August 2022.

To quote yourself,
“thanks for playing”

Funny, you never mentioned the post I responded to...

You know, the one that said that:

"89% of those dying are over 65.
94% of those over 65 have received 1 shot."

Both of those statements are incorrect, even using your "August 2022" info

But I'll give you the extra 27% (which STILL doesn't add up to 89%), since it didn't show up when I first looked at the link...

[Whitley]

Originally Posted by Ski Bum

When an older person dies, it doesn't affect the longevity stats much. When tens of thousands of young men are dying from drugs every year, the stat tanks.

Aren't we able to get data that shows increase/decrease deaths from heart disease and lung issues?

[blueash]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Wrong...

COVID No Longer 'Pandemic of the Unvaccinated'

Do you even read the links you provide? I pointed out, I thought clearly, that the reason for the change in total deaths moving toward a higher percentage of those deaths being in those vaccinated was because a high percentage of all Americans are vaccinated. And further that the risk of death remains much higher in those who have refused vaccines. Risk of death is how many die in a matched set of say 1000 vaccinated vs 1000 unvaccinated.

You continue to suggest that the vaccines do not work and the data, including the link you posted say exactly the opposite of what you are presenting to the readers of this forum. You are spreading misinformation and putting lives at risk.

From the WebMD link:

Research continues to show that people who are vaccinated or boosted have a lower risk of death. The rise in deaths among the vaccinated is the result of three factors, Cox said. They are:

A large majority of people in the U.S. have been vaccinated (267 million people in the U.S., the CDC says).
People who are at the greatest risk of dying from COVID-19 are more likely to be vaccinated and boosted, such as the elderly.
Vaccines lose their effectiveness over time; the virus changes to avoid vaccines; and people need to choose to get boosters to continue to be protected.
The case for the effectiveness of vaccines and boosters versus skipping the shots remains strong.

From the Guardian link which you used to attempt to show that deaths are being attributed to Covid when it was a trivial comorbidity... That article said nothing about that issue, rather it reported a coding error where if a box was checked reporting a date of death the software was ignoring another box that said the death was not related to Covid. This software error was caught and fixed and the numbers were revised. By the way, the error originally occurred at the state or county level when the forms were filled in. The form first asked was the death related to covid. Then the date of death was to be filled in only if YES to the first question. If someone put a date of death when the cause was not Covid the initial software guessed that the yes/no had been answered wrong. They then removed all the deaths when the "caused by Covid" was NO but a date was entered.
This in fact may have resulted in an undercount as certainly some of the forms had the error of checking the wrong yes/no box. Thus when all is said and done, the CDC undercounted Covid deaths in these mismatched forms.

I closely read the CDC reports and can promise you that the CDC never said what you claim it said that "ANY death where there was a positive covid test was considered a covid death"

If you actually care about how the CDC wanted death certificates to be filled in to allow for collection of accurate data you can read the webinar done in April 2020 when Covid was just beginning. It is very clear they only want Covid listed if it is the cause of death.
https://emergency.cdc.gov/coca/ppt/2...transcript.pdf

While it is possible that some individual funeral homes or coroners did not follow CDC guidelines, that works both ways. Including there being individuals who would not list Covid on forms.
County coroner in Missouri says he omits Covid-19 from some death certificates
or from this story: COVID-19 deaths obscured by inaccurate death certificates

In Cape Girardeau County, Missouri, coroner Wavis Jordan said his office “doesn’t do COVID deaths.” Jordan does not investigate deaths himself. He requires families to provide proof of a positive coronavirus test before including it on a death certificate.

In 2021, he hasn’t pronounced a single person dead from COVID-19 in the 80,000-person county.

[melpetezrinski]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Funny, you never mentioned the post I responded to...

You know, the one that said that:

"89% of those dying are over 65.
94% of those over 65 have received 1 shot."

Both of those statements are incorrect, even using your "August 2022" info

But I'll give you the extra 27% (which STILL doesn't add up to 89%), since it didn't show up when I first looked at the link...

I guess you missed post #68 with the link. Of course it "doesn't add up to 89%" because your chart that "didn't show up" (LMAO), is ........wait for it........... AS OF a date. I am done here since you refuse to acknowledge or worse, can't comprehend the difference between "IN" August and "AS OF" August.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by blueash

Do you even read the links you provide? I pointed out, I thought clearly, that the reason for the change in total deaths moving toward a higher percentage of those deaths being in those vaccinated was because a high percentage of all Americans are vaccinated. And further that the risk of death remains much higher in those who have refused vaccines. Risk of death is how many die in a matched set of say 1000 vaccinated vs 1000 unvaccinated.

You continue to suggest that the vaccines do not work and the data, including the link you posted say exactly the opposite of what you are presenting to the readers of this forum. You are spreading misinformation and putting lives at risk.

From the WebMD link:


From the Guardian link which you used to attempt to show that deaths are being attributed to Covid when it was a trivial comorbidity... That article said nothing about that issue, rather it reported a coding error where if a box was checked reporting a date of death the software was ignoring another box that said the death was not related to Covid. This software error was caught and fixed and the numbers were revised. By the way, the error originally occurred at the state or county level when the forms were filled in. The form first asked was the death related to covid. Then the date of death was to be filled in only if YES to the first question. If someone put a date of death when the cause was not Covid the initial software guessed that the yes/no had been answered wrong. They then removed all the deaths when the "caused by Covid" was NO but a date was entered.
This in fact may have resulted in an undercount as certainly some of the forms had the error of checking the wrong yes/no box. Thus when all is said and done, the CDC undercounted Covid deaths in these mismatched forms.

I closely read the CDC reports and can promise you that the CDC never said what you claim it said that "ANY death where there was a positive covid test was considered a covid death"

If you actually care about how the CDC wanted death certificates to be filled in to allow for collection of accurate data you can read the webinar done in April 2020 when Covid was just beginning. It is very clear they only want Covid listed if it is the cause of death.
https://emergency.cdc.gov/coca/ppt/2...transcript.pdf

While it is possible that some individual funeral homes or coroners did not follow CDC guidelines, that works both ways. Including there being individuals who would not list Covid on forms.
County coroner in Missouri says he omits Covid-19 from some death certificates
or from this story: COVID-19 deaths obscured by inaccurate death certificates

Using your "logic", those unvaccinated are dying at a higher rate. But it's the younger population that has a much lower vaccination rate.

Yet you insist it's only the older people who are dying...

Frankly, I don't give a whit as to what "you can promise me"...

Using what they said in "April 2020" is folly, since we now know they were making things up at that time...

I've seen the videos of the director of the CDC saying exactly what I said. Same with some State Health Administrators.

Case in point:

https://youtu.be/6SjwUXyP8j4

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by melpetezrinski

I guess you missed post #68 with the link. Of course it "doesn't add up to 89%" because your chart that "didn't show up" (LMAO), is ........wait for it........... AS OF a date. I am done here since you refuse to acknowledge or worse, can't comprehend the difference between "IN" August and "AS OF" August.

I didn't miss anything (except the highest age group, which I already admitted), despite your rant...

And no, you're not done...

[Bay Kid]

I'm lucky. Both feet hit the floor this morning. Keep yourself as healthy as possible.