[Villages PL]

What must it be like to think that everything is genetic? I would liken it to being lost, perhaps adrift on a life-raft in the middle of the ocean. In which case, your continued well-being and your very existence would depend mostly on luck.

Therefore, if you think you have "bad" genes you might reason that there's no point in trying to live a healthy lifestyle. What good would it do? And if you think you have "good" genes you might come to the same conclusion: Why bother depriving yourself of all the pleasures of your favorite "comfort foods" when you fully expect your genes to provide good health and longevity? It's an outlook that sets one free of all responsibility.

I believe that genes are context-sensitive and, for the most part, we provide the context.

My belief is backed up by the following two books:
1) "The Dependent Gene", by David S. Moore, Ph.D.
2) "The Biology of Belief", by Bruce H. Lipton. Ph.D.

If you believe everything (for the purposes of this thread we're talking about degenerative diseases of the elderly) is genetic, what source(s) do you have to back up your belief? (The source should be something that we can check; we can't check your family history.)

Have fun.

[ilovetv]

I think you've started on a mistaken premise: that people believe "everything" is genetic regarding diseases.

From all the many discussions here about diet/nutrition being "everything" to prevention of dreaded disease, it has been said many times in all honesty that inherited genetics can--and do--often over-ride the best of nutritional and healthy lifestyle habits.

And nobody has said to avoid improving one's lifestyle/eating habits because their genes will out-gun them anyway.

Just as genetics is not "everything" to disease acquisition or not, neither is dietary intake and exercise "everything" to preventing it.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

I think you've started on a mistaken premise: that people believe "everything" is genetic regarding diseases.

From all the many discussions here about diet/nutrition being "everything" to prevention of dreaded disease, it has been said many times in all honesty that inherited genetics can--and do--often over-ride the best of nutritional and healthy lifestyle habits.

And nobody has said to avoid improving one's lifestyle/eating habits because their genes will out-gun them anyway.

Just as genetics is not "everything" to disease acquisition or not, neither is dietary intake and exercise "everything" to preventing it.

In a recent discussion, which you took part in, there were one or two comments stating that "it's all genetic", and no one replied to it. No one challenged it. So I wondered if perhaps everyone was in agreement with it.
Rather than make it something between me and the poster(s) I thought I would open it up to all those who might be interested.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

In a recent discussion, which you took part in, there were one or two comments stating that "it's all genetic", and no one replied to it. No one challenged it. So I wondered if perhaps everyone was in agreement with it.
Rather than make it something between me and the poster(s) I thought I would open it up to all those who might be interested.

You know Villages Pl. Most people as old as we are realize that a persons choices can alter the length of their lives. Most of us know that exercise and diet and being in a happy state can lengthen most lives and avoiding smoking and avoiding dangerous activities can help and having fun and getting enough sleep and enjoying activities that increase our heart rate and move our bodies around help too, to make us generally healthier and possibly allow us to live longer.

How long would that be? How much longer would we live if we ate your diet? How much longer would you live if you saw a doctor every three months and did everything he said to do? How much longer would we live if we lived in an optimal situation and didn't have money issues or kids who worried us?

Who really knows?

[jimbo2012]

I disagree, you can offset the effects of many genetics thru diet.

I would often hear oh yea everybody on that side of the family has heart problems, they died young.

The genetics of our parents unfortunately did not enjoy the benefits of today's medical miracles, and some of us will live long enough to enjoy the benefits of tomorrows medical break through.

It is a fact that vegetarians live on average up to 10 years longer and vegans up to 15 years.

ex. atherosclerosis can be reversed as well as type II diabetes with diet.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

It is a fact that vegetarians live on average up to 10 years longer and vegans up to 15 years. ex. atherosclerosis can be reversed as well as type II diabetes with diet.

Those are interesting statistics. I don't doubt your word, but can you provide links to large studies done by well-known Medical Institutions? Does one have to be a life-long Vegetarian or Vegan to reap these benefits?

[jimbo2012]

"a large study by Loma Linda University. This phenomenal fact is echoed in multiple huge studies. In fact, the findings on vegetarian and vegan longevity are confirmed by the world’s largest population study on diet and health ever done. The comprehensive China Health Project study found that people who eat the least amount of fat and animal products have the lowest risks of cancer, heart attack and other chronic degenerative diseases.

Plus, a British study that tracked 6,000 vegetarians and 5,000 meat eaters for 12 years found that vegetarians were 40 percent less likely to die from cancer during that time and 20 percent less likely to die from other diseases.

So much for the old-fashioned notion that we need meat to be healthy. Fact is, the opposite is true. If the bonanza of spending many more years enjoying life with loved ones isn’t enough to leave animals off the dinner plate"

As to the second part of your question, with the changes we have have experienced personally, it appears not a life long issue IMO.

[ariel]

I would be interested in the actual references so I could read the study. I'm a vegetarian - not vegan; mostly because I never really liked the taste of meat. I was raised on a farm and visited the slaughterhouse a few times with my dad - that, over time, cured me from wanting to eat meat. However, I do have a lot of relatives who were meat eaters and they lived very long and active lives. So, again, I'd like to read the studies you cite. If one does choose to leave all meat out of their diet, they need to be careful to get the protein and other nutirents, generally provided by meat, from another source.

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by ariel

If one does choose to leave all meat out of their diet, they need to be careful to get the protein and other nutirents, generally provided by meat, from another source.

This has been discussed before - protein, nutrients etc not being provided in a plant based diet is totally incorrect a myth.


The only supplement that may be needed is B12

U can simply Google those studies

[ariel]

I guess we read differnt studies

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by ariel

I guess we read differnt studies

Ariel, this is what I find very confusing. There seems to be no right or wrong answers. It's all in the eye of the beholder. There are studies which support numerous (and often conflicting) points of view.

I've never heard before that Vegans live up to 15 years longer than the rest of us.

[ariel]

Yes, Barefoot, very confusing. That's why I like to read the studies and even then it's hard to know their true value to the overall "body of knowledge". I look for any obvious bias of the researchers and sometimes it's hard to know unless you know who funded the study. All studies have limitations and the researchers are supposed to clearly state limitations. Also, I look to see if the study has been replicated and, if so, who did it and what were their findings...

This all is reason why I said in another thread a while back that moderation in life is probably the best approach to take. And, yes, I know someone will want to highlight the fact that my definition of moderation may be different to someone elses - so very true. For me, I've tried to decide how I want to live day to day in order to enjoy life and, perhaps in the process, extend it continuing to be healthy, and do the study to learn best how to do that.

[graciegirl]

Jimbo.

Are you referring to the study by Loma Linda on the effect of a vegetarian diet and increased exercise on diabetes in the black population of U.S. and Canada? I don't know of another one on the vegetarian diet from that institution.

They (Loma Linda) are currently studying the vegetarian diet and it's effect on small children.

I am not as up on things as I used to be so I very well could be wrong..

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Ariel, this is what I find very confusing. There seems to be no right or wrong answers. It's all in the eye of the beholder. There are studies which support numerous (and often conflicting) points of view.

It seems to me that you have totally given up. And giving up means you can continue down the easier path of eating whatever you want, based on the concept of moderation. Is that a fair characterization?

It's not in the eye of the beholder.

Choose what's better for your health:

1) a small baked potato or a serving of potato chips/french fries?

2) a small apple or a serving of apple pie?

3) a high fiber diet or a low fiber diet?

4) a diet high in saturated fat or a diet with a small amount of good fat?

5) a diet high in animal protein and low in vegetables or a diet high in vegetables and low in animal protein? (A vegan diet is all the better.)

6) a diet with fruit for dessert and/or snacks, or a diet with processed desserts like ice cream or cookies.

7) a diet that calls for lots of processed foods like pizza, or a diet that eliminates processed foods.

Exactly what is it that you find confusing?

[jimbo2012]

Just read The China study, no one was influencing that one nor has the author had any ulterior motives to make money or sell products.

That is the most comprehensive study that I know of and all the top doctors in the field are on board with it's finding.

We (my wife and myself have read a lot on this subject, she jokes and says I've reached the end of diet info on Google.

IMO moderation is an excuse for lack of will power in certain individuals.

A drop of gas on fire...........basically what is happening is dopamine in the brain are released and your body develops a need for more and more sugars and processed food to satisfy that need.

That craving can be broken in about a month or two.

If you have medical issues or prefer to avoid them in the future and enjoy your children and grandchildren aka live longer/healthier without tons of meds and their side effects -- don't eat meat or processed food.

You can't say you should have if you're looking at the wrong side of the grass!


.