[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Nice try ladies and gentlemen, but that IS NOT what I said. I SAID that a fully vaccinated individual WHO ACQUIRED IMMUNITY COULD NOT acquire or spread the virus. For those with reading comprehension issues, that means I EXCLUDED the 5% that you are referring to.

Do I need to quote the CDC again????? Or is the paragraph above clear enough? OR SHOULD I SHOUT LOUDER????

Now that I explained why I am right and you are wrong-----I'll explain what you read on the CDC site but failed to understand.....and I'll just use an example to explain.

If 100 people are "fully vaccinated", SOME of them can still acquire and spread the virus, but likely will get less ill and are less likely to die. THESE are the 5%.

So yes, if you word it that way, fully vaccinated individuals can acquire and spread the disease.

But I was referring to the 95%. These people were fully vaccinated AND FULLY IMMUNE. So to shout it once again for those that are heard of hearing, THESE PEOPLE CANNOT GET OR SPREAD COVID. And once again, PERIOD!

I can't make it any simpler than that.

So thanks to those that tried to muddy the water with "their own reading" and then formed their own mutual admiration society thanking each other for their "contributions".

Try using color.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Try using color.

Unfortunately, some people are blind as well as deaf....

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

Still wrong, no matter how loudly it is shouted. Thanks to blueash and others who have already responded with links provided to dispel this rumor. All my own reading & research on the CDC site and many others says that fully vaccinated people may still carry the virus and may still transmit it.
But definitively wrong?

CDC Data Suggests Vaccinated Don’t Carry, Can’t Spread Virus

CDC Director Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky said that "vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that is not just in the clinical trials but it's also in real world data,"

CDC: Fully vaccinated people don’t spread COVID-19

Data changes daily - don't shoot the messenger.

Also, 'fully vaccinated' means several weeks after the second shot. In reality, unless you have a comprehensive blood test, there is no way to tell if you are in the unfortunate 5% that the vaccine did not provide the immunity to.

That's why the vaccine isn't 100% effective - for the 95%, they are fully protected, for the 5%, they are not. The numbers, however, are low enough that an outbreak is extremely unlikely since 95% cannot carry nor get Covid.

So, for those of you who keep talking about protection from the vaccine, read this THEN do the math:

Covid-19 vaccines: CDC reports 5,800 Covid infections in fully vaccinated people

Did you see the numbers?

77 MILLION Vaccinated, 74 deaths - 0.0000961039% fatality rate
77 MILLION Vaccinated, 296 required hospitalization - 0.0005142857%
77 MILLION Vaccinated, 5800 with Covid-like syptoms - 0.0075324675%

These numbers are infinitesimal and, using the 5% that the vaccine was not effective on, we get this:

77 MILLION Vaccinated, 3.85 MILLION are unprotected because the vaccine did not 'take'

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

CDC Data Suggests Vaccinated Don’t Carry, Can’t Spread Virus

CDC Director Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky said that "vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that is not just in the clinical trials but it's also in real world data,"

CDC: Fully vaccinated people don’t spread COVID-19

Data changes daily - don't shoot the messenger.

Also, 'fully vaccinated' means several weeks after the second shot. In reality, unless you have a comprehensive blood test, there is no way to tell if you are in the unfortunate 5% that the vaccine did not provide the immunity to.

That's why the vaccine isn't 100% effective - for the 95%, they are fully protected, for the 5%, they are not. The numbers, however, are low enough that an outbreak is extremely unlikely since 95% cannot carry nor get Covid.

So, for those of you who keep talking about protection from the vaccine, read this THEN do the math:

Covid-19 vaccines: CDC reports 5,800 Covid infections in fully vaccinated people

Did you see the numbers?

77 MILLION Vaccinated, 74 deaths - 0.0000961039% fatality rate
77 MILLION Vaccinated, 296 required hospitalization - 0.0005142857%
77 MILLION Vaccinated, 5800 with Covid-like syptoms - 0.0075324675%

These numbers are infinitesimal and, using the 5% that the vaccine was not effective on, we get this:

77 MILLION Vaccinated, 3.85 MILLION are unprotected because the vaccine did not 'take'

All true, and yet there are those with far less credentials telling me I am wrong. I just love social media----the only place you can google a few blurbs and then consider yourself an expert. No idea why I wasted 11 years to become a real expert.

[Bay Kid]

Originally Posted by dougjb

Yes....masks are such an incredible burden. It is simply the hardest thing anyone could possibly imagine to do. Don't you just find it so difficult to put one loop over one ear and the other loop over the other ear? How dare anyone suggest we should give a damn about our fellow human beings! After all, it is our right to play a part in infecting others with a potentially deadly disease. Don't you just love showing others how little you care about them?

Really? If you have the shots the govern says won't hurt you, keeps everyone safe and protects you, then why keep wearing a mask? If you are so worried maybe you should stay isolated until you feel safe.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

Really? If you have the shots the govern says won't hurt you, keeps everyone safe and protects you, then why keep wearing a mask? If you are so worried maybe you should stay isolated until you feel safe.

There are those that believe a mask is the answer to the pandemic, right from the beginning , and continue to worship at the altar of the holy mask. You will never convince them otherwise.

However, there is some rationale for continued use of masks in the appropriate settings.
Right now there a basically four groups: Those that have been fully vaccinated and acquired immunity, those who were fully vaccinated but failed to acquire immunity (the 5%ers), those that had COVID and recovered and are therefore probably immune, and those that had neither the vaccine nor the illness. How do we know who is in which group and therefore do not need masks ever? So I think we are going to be dealing with masks for some time to come, until the vast majority of people have been vaccinated, or until the new case rate approaches zero.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

Really? If you have the shots the govern says won't hurt you, keeps everyone safe and protects you, then why keep wearing a mask? If you are so worried maybe you should stay isolated until you feel safe.

Because, to the surprise of absolutely no one ever, there exist dishonest people in this world.

There exist people who WILL NOT vaccinate, who MIGHT be infected, and MIGHT be spreading the virus, who will claim they are vaccinated JUST so they don't have to wear the mask.

As long as those kinds of people exist, masking will continue to be an appropriate and socially acceptable garment to adorn your face while you are inside someone else's building other than your own.

It's called setting a good example for others, being a good neighbor, being civil, and respecting the needs of others.

Perhaps you hadn't learned about these things where you grew up but that's what my mama taught ME, and that's how I roll.

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Nice try ladies and gentlemen, but that IS NOT what I said. I SAID that a fully vaccinated individual WHO ACQUIRED IMMUNITY COULD NOT acquire or spread the virus. For those with reading comprehension issues, that means I EXCLUDED the 5% that you are referring to.

Here you're paraphrasing yourself from post #20: "If you are fully vaccinated you CANNOT get the virus, you CANNOT spread the virus, and you CANNOT infect others. Period. PERIOD!!!!! (This does not include the 5% who do not acquire immunity)." Fully vaccinated merely means that you have received the full course of whichever version of the vaccine you were given. It does NOT mean 100% immunity. Here is the quote from the CDC you're stuck on "All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States are effective at preventing COVID-19 as seen in clinical trial settings." See 100% anywhere in there? Nope, me either.

Although you did change your phrasing somewhat in post #32 ("Again, a fully vaccinated and immune person CANNOT get and CANNOT spread COVID. PERIOD!!!!!"), it's still counter to what the 'efficacy' of the vaccine actually is (which you seem to believe is interchangeable with 'immunity'). Here is a link to a TIME article which explains what 'efficacy' & 'effectiveness' actually mean: Breaking Down What COVID-19 Vaccine Effectiveness Means | Time The meat of the article ..."it’s important to understand what these companies were actually measuring to come up with their efficacy numbers. In the case of the COVID-19 vaccines, the researchers were measuring how well their vaccines protected against symptoms of COVID-19. So their vaccine efficacy numbers refer to how well they lowered people’s chance of getting sick with COVID-19. Pfizer-BioNTech’s vaccine is 95% efficacious, meaning that for vaccinated people, it was 95% efficacious in protecting people from getting COVID-19 symptoms. It does not mean that 95% of people vaccinated won’t get COVID-19 and 5% will." Which is the same way I've read & heard it explained several times. There's more to this article but I don't want to be a spoiler.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Do I need to quote the CDC again????? Or is the paragraph above clear enough? OR SHOULD I SHOUT LOUDER????

Now that I explained why I am right and you are wrong-----I'll explain what you read on the CDC site but failed to understand.....and I'll just use an example to explain.

If 100 people are "fully vaccinated", SOME of them can still acquire and spread the virus, but likely will get less ill and are less likely to die. THESE are the 5%.

So yes, if you word it that way, fully vaccinated individuals can acquire and spread the disease.

But I was referring to the 95%. These people were fully vaccinated AND FULLY IMMUNE. So to shout it once again for those that are heard of hearing, THESE PEOPLE CANNOT GET OR SPREAD COVID. And once again, PERIOD!

I can't make it any simpler than that.

So thanks to those that tried to muddy the water with "their own reading" and then formed their own mutual admiration society thanking each other for their "contributions".

Maybe you need to do a little more reading & less shouting?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

Here you're paraphrasing yourself from post #20: "If you are fully vaccinated you CANNOT get the virus, you CANNOT spread the virus, and you CANNOT infect others. Period. PERIOD!!!!! (This does not include the 5% who do not acquire immunity)." Fully vaccinated merely means that you have received the full course of whichever version of the vaccine you were given. It does NOT mean 100% immunity. Here is the quote from the CDC you're stuck on "All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States are effective at preventing COVID-19 as seen in clinical trial settings." See 100% anywhere in there? Nope, me either.

Although you did change your phrasing somewhat in post #32 ("Again, a fully vaccinated and immune person CANNOT get and CANNOT spread COVID. PERIOD!!!!!"), it's still counter to what the 'efficacy' of the vaccine actually is (which you seem to believe is interchangeable with 'immunity'). Here is a link to a TIME article which explains what 'efficacy' & 'effectiveness' actually mean: Breaking Down What COVID-19 Vaccine Effectiveness Means | Time The meat of the article ..."it’s important to understand what these companies were actually measuring to come up with their efficacy numbers. In the case of the COVID-19 vaccines, the researchers were measuring how well their vaccines protected against symptoms of COVID-19. So their vaccine efficacy numbers refer to how well they lowered people’s chance of getting sick with COVID-19. Pfizer-BioNTech’s vaccine is 95% efficacious, meaning that for vaccinated people, it was 95% efficacious in protecting people from getting COVID-19 symptoms. It does not mean that 95% of people vaccinated won’t get COVID-19 and 5% will." Which is the same way I've read & heard it explained several times. There's more to this article but I don't want to be a spoiler.


Maybe you need to do a little more reading & less shouting?

Maybe you need a little more reading comprehension and less attempts at reading material that is clearly over your head. If you read the context, you would know that 95% was implied in everything I wrote.

Please stop trying to compete with me concerning medical issues, you're only embarrassing yourself. Absolutely amazing---an amateur layperson googles a few items and then wants to lecture an expert. Boy, I love the internet

[Tmarkwald]

...

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

All my own reading & research on the CDC site and many others says that fully vaccinated people may still carry the virus and may still transmit it.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Maybe you need a little more reading comprehension and less attempts at reading material that is clearly over your head. If you read the context, you would know that 95% was implied in everything I wrote.

Everyone should know the 95% immunity percentage by now.

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Maybe you need a little more reading comprehension and less attempts at reading material that is clearly over your head. If you read the context, you would know that 95% was implied in everything I wrote.

Please stop trying to compete with me concerning medical issues, you're only embarrassing yourself. Absolutely amazing---an amateur layperson googles a few items and then wants to lecture an expert. Boy, I love the internet

My reading comprehension is just fine. Yours? Maybe a bit less. The 95% figure is, again, NOT the number of people who will get the virus. Please re-read the quote from the TIME article I referred to in post #68. It's very important that you understand this distinction.

OK, let's go back to my original suggestion (in post #11) & see what happens. Search for "can a vaccinated person infect someone else with covid."

Hit #1: Study asks if vaccinated people can still transmit virus, Fauci says | PBS NewsHour Read it if you want but the gist is that there is no definitive answer.

Hit #2: Can vaccinated people still spread the coronavirus? contains this "Many people think vaccines work like a shield, blocking a virus from infecting cells altogether. But in most cases, a person who gets vaccinated is protected from disease, not necessarily infection."

Hit #3: Bloomberg - Are you a robot? in part says this: "We think of vaccines as working by preventing the transmission of a disease. But that isn't necessarily the case.
“The short answer is we don’t quite know yet,” says Buddy Creech, director of Vanderbilt University's Vaccine Research Program."

Hit #4: Can vaccinated people still spread the coronavirus? Here's a quote, "1. Does vaccination completely prevent infection?
The short answer is no. You can still get infected after you’ve been vaccinated. But your chances of getting seriously ill are almost zero.
Many people think vaccines work like a shield, blocking a virus from infecting cells altogether. But in most cases, a person who gets vaccinated is protected from disease, not necessarily infection."

Hit #5: Can I infect someone after I’ve received the COVID-19 vaccine? - Mayo Clinic offers this: "Andrew Badley, M.D., COVID-19 Research Task Force Chair, Mayo Clinic: What we know the vaccine does is it prevents symptomatic disease. What we don't know if it does or not is to prevent infection. And if you are infected, but you don't get sick because of the vaccine, you can still replicate the virus and transmit the virus."

I can go on, but it would only be wasting everybody's time. Feel free to point out any errors in MY reading comprehension of any of these, or provide any other reputable sources to back your specious argument.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

My reading comprehension is just fine. Yours? Maybe a bit less. The 95% figure is, again, NOT the number of people who will get the virus. Please re-read the quote from the TIME article I referred to in post #68. It's very important that you understand this distinction.

OK, let's go back to my original suggestion (in post #11) & see what happens. Search for "can a vaccinated person infect someone else with covid."

Hit #1: Study asks if vaccinated people can still transmit virus, Fauci says | PBS NewsHour Read it if you want but the gist is that there is no definitive answer.

Hit #2: Can vaccinated people still spread the coronavirus? contains this "Many people think vaccines work like a shield, blocking a virus from infecting cells altogether. But in most cases, a person who gets vaccinated is protected from disease, not necessarily infection."

Hit #3: Bloomberg - Are you a robot? in part says this: "We think of vaccines as working by preventing the transmission of a disease. But that isn't necessarily the case.
“The short answer is we don’t quite know yet,” says Buddy Creech, director of Vanderbilt University's Vaccine Research Program."

Hit #4: Can vaccinated people still spread the coronavirus? Here's a quote, "1. Does vaccination completely prevent infection?
The short answer is no. You can still get infected after you’ve been vaccinated. But your chances of getting seriously ill are almost zero.
Many people think vaccines work like a shield, blocking a virus from infecting cells altogether. But in most cases, a person who gets vaccinated is protected from disease, not necessarily infection."

Hit #5: Can I infect someone after I’ve received the COVID-19 vaccine? - Mayo Clinic offers this: "Andrew Badley, M.D., COVID-19 Research Task Force Chair, Mayo Clinic: What we know the vaccine does is it prevents symptomatic disease. What we don't know if it does or not is to prevent infection. And if you are infected, but you don't get sick because of the vaccine, you can still replicate the virus and transmit the virus."

I can go on, but it would only be wasting everybody's time. Feel free to point out any errors in MY reading comprehension of any of these, or provide any other reputable sources to back your specious argument.

First thing you got right

I would stop right there, but you still don't understand. You have cherry picked quotes that are referring to the vaccinated population as a whole----so yes, there are vaccinated people who can acquire and transmit the virus---a small percentage of them. And yes, you are correct in pointing out efficacy and immunity are 2 different things, because that was the study design for these vaccines. Since a positive antibody test after vaccination is NOT a good measure of immunity, I can't think of a better study metric than symptomatic disease.

HOWEVER, the overwhelming majority of those vaccinated will acquire immunity and be unable to spread the disease----that is the whole point of a massive vaccination program, once you stop parsing words.

Also read between the lines. The vast majority of these researchers outside the pharmaceutical companies are dependent on federal funding, and the outcome the feds want at this time is continued mask wearing. You connect the dots.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

My reading comprehension is just fine. Yours? Maybe a bit less. The 95% figure is, again, NOT the number of people who will get the virus. Please re-read the quote from the TIME article I referred to in post #68. It's very important that you understand this distinction.

OK, let's go back to my original suggestion (in post #11) & see what happens. Search for "can a vaccinated person infect someone else with covid."

Hit #1: Study asks if vaccinated people can still transmit virus, Fauci says | PBS NewsHour Read it if you want but the gist is that there is no definitive answer.

Hit #2: Can vaccinated people still spread the coronavirus? contains this "Many people think vaccines work like a shield, blocking a virus from infecting cells altogether. But in most cases, a person who gets vaccinated is protected from disease, not necessarily infection."

Hit #3: Bloomberg - Are you a robot? in part says this: "We think of vaccines as working by preventing the transmission of a disease. But that isn't necessarily the case.
“The short answer is we don’t quite know yet,” says Buddy Creech, director of Vanderbilt University's Vaccine Research Program."

Hit #4: Can vaccinated people still spread the coronavirus? Here's a quote, "1. Does vaccination completely prevent infection?
The short answer is no. You can still get infected after you’ve been vaccinated. But your chances of getting seriously ill are almost zero.
Many people think vaccines work like a shield, blocking a virus from infecting cells altogether. But in most cases, a person who gets vaccinated is protected from disease, not necessarily infection."

Hit #5: Can I infect someone after I’ve received the COVID-19 vaccine? - Mayo Clinic offers this: "Andrew Badley, M.D., COVID-19 Research Task Force Chair, Mayo Clinic: What we know the vaccine does is it prevents symptomatic disease. What we don't know if it does or not is to prevent infection. And if you are infected, but you don't get sick because of the vaccine, you can still replicate the virus and transmit the virus."

I can go on, but it would only be wasting everybody's time. Feel free to point out any errors in MY reading comprehension of any of these, or provide any other reputable sources to back your specious argument.

At the end of the day - do we care?

Are we willing to give up our liberties to protect someone who is foolish enough to refuse the vaccine?

Saying that the vaccine isn't 100% effective - again, who cares?

Simple truth is - if you get vaccinated you are as protected as you can get.

I really don't see why we all spend the time quibbling about this. What's the end point? What are we trying to accomplish?

I had Covid. I got vaccinated as well. I chose life.

You can sit at home and do whatever it is to protect yourself because, as altruistic as I am, I can't fix stupid. And I am sure there are others that feel the same.

[golfing eagles]

I think we can finally put this academic and semantic debate to rest. The CDC just announced that only 0.008% of vaccinated individuals became infected with COVID.

So, to repeat my earlier statements, these people cannot acquire and spread COVID. No need to even shout it anymore.

Final score: Medical professionals 1, amateurs with google, 0