[otherbruddaDarrell]

NJBLUE
We are on the same page. Why is it that there are some that just do not get it?
It makes me wonder how many people that are actually whining about this so called curfew even go to Havana for the music instead of the squares.
I know that my wife and I don't, and I think the majority of residents do not go there as well.
If .050 of residents went there on any given night they could not accomodate the crowd!
If it was as big an issue as this forum makes it out to be then all the business owners would be pushing hard to get things changed.
How many people do you see driving in carts or cars in the evening?
I was a substitute gate attendant for a while and I can attest that the traffic is minimal in the evenings.
As a past business owner who went thru the process of getting a liquor license and fighting with the town (up north) I would not expect the public to fight my battles. We did that ourselves as a matter of doing business.
I just think that this whole "curfew" thing is really somewhat of an issue that should be persued by the CC involved if they think it is needed.
Here is a thought.......support the music on the squares, this is what is the bread and butter of TV!
So when it comes time for "the few" to picket for the Havana late night, outside music......count me out!
p.s. NJBLUE whatever beer you are having on your side is fine with me as long as it is cold!

[homeball]

Originally Posted by F16 1UB

Hmmm !?!?!?!?!?! "And MY point is" Don't you think your point has been made or are you trying to convince yourself. Yep - sounds like a political arena.

I quite agree F16. But this is a fine example of someone getting stuck in a sand trap and not being able to get out. They took their swings. Now they should pick up their ball and MOVE ON.

Buckle up, F16. We're probably going to take some hits for these two posts.

[Freeda]

Just wanted to mention that I heard some information yesterday from someone who was at Havana last Sunday night; and who said that according to the manager there it was one homeowner who complained.

On the other hand, about 100 or more people were there, enjoying the outdoor music on the patio on a lovely Sunday evening, and they all or mostly left when the music stopped. The suggestion that it should not be just 'about me' as was mentioned earlier should apply to these facts, too; and it's hard to see this as a 'trampling' of rights if only one person complained, particularly if the music's sound volume complied with ordinances; some earlier posts said that it did; but the point is that unless it was shown that it didn't, then there was nothing wrong with the music playing.

The fact that there are venues at the squares does not answer the issue of the rights of other businesses, and the rights of villagers who prefer different or other types of - or later - entertainment, and different settings for it, to have other options, as long as they are not shown to be violative of the law.

Those who are content with the offerings at the squares - which do offer great entertainment - are free to limit themselves to there; but that does not justify them in imposing their choices, and those limitations, on everyone else.

[Boomer]

Hey! I bought the movie rights to this thread.

Here's the trailer. And if you watch closely you will see that the sheriff really was there.

(Just click on the youtube part of the link. And please don't throw anything at me. I have been sitting on this for two days, wondering if I should post it or not. Oh well, here goes. I hope you will turn on your speakers and smile a little. )

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaaYU-lZ3ac[/ame]

Boomer

Originally Posted by hedoman

We were down in October for the Italian Festival and the music and fun lasted past 9 . We were strolling along the LS walk and could hear music from a number of places on the water. Is this a new ordinance?

All I can say is IT'S TIME FOR TOOOOGA! TOGA TOGA TOGA

I still do not see anything in the ordinace posted for Sumter County which would empower the County Sheriff's office to put in a 8 p.m. noise limitation because the ordinace is about Sumter County. These "downtown" areas woud be what-- those of Oxford, Wildwood, Coleman, Lake Panasoffkee, Coleman, Croom-a-Coochee, Webster, Bushnell and a few small towns in between? Lake Sumter Landing seems to me to be more of a "downtown" area than any of these except maybe Bushnell's. I believe that Wildwood actually has a "curfew" in place at least for teens?

I also doubt that a country club in a large retirement community was what the writers of this ordinance had in mind with respect to putting in reasonable limitations on noise levels.

The 10 p.m. limit on "downtown" areas would seem to apply to Lake Sumter Landing if you put this ordinace in terms of Sumter County and not looking at it from say the Lake and/or Marion County perspective. Both Lake and Marion County have much bigger downtown areas in them than our rather rural Sumter County.

The posted Sumter County ordinace being used to limit entertainment on the squares seems like the Sheriff's office would be stretching the ordinace quite a bit farther than its authors intended.

I also do not see a restaurant with entertainment in a county club really being in the purview of the writers of the posted ordinance.

[784caroline]

Just curious, I imagine Havana has to have a county license to serve food, serve liquor. Does this also apply to having enteratinment either indoor or outdoor and if so, are there any restrictions (Time and decible level)?

The INDOOR solution as some claim is the answer, I doubt would work especially "in-season". Indoor entertainment would displace tables for diners. Also you simply cannot move from one location to another at 8pm due to set-up and break-up times involved.

If the developers wants CCs to be successful, which includes being creative to bring new business into the club, you would think they would go to bat with county commissioners for these business ventures or else they will close. A reasonable decible level and a reasonable time for closure should be set. Hard to believe such limits are not already in place.

If 8pm is the time limt, I think "Old Foggies Community" would be a more appropriate title for The Villages.

[Donna]

Originally Posted by F16 1UB

Hmmm !?!?!?!?!?! "And MY point is" Don't you think your point has been made or are you trying to convince yourself. Yep - sounds like a political arena.

[KathieI]

Originally Posted by DickY

This is a Sumter County issue. The county Commissioners are holding a monthly meeting :
Title: Board of County Commissioners - Regular Meeting
Date: November 24, 2009
Address: 510 Colony Boulevard
The Villages, FL 32162
Location: Colony Cottage Recreation Center, Parlor Room
Hours: 5:00 PM
Contact: 352-793-0200
Email: Jessica.douglas@sumtercountyfl.gov
Maybe attending this meeting is an opportunity to bring something up to the powers that be. I don't know how open these meetings are. An interesting figure in today's paper shows the county population at about 95,000. The Villages probably constitutes the majority of the population.

Sumter County Link: http://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/index.aspx

The County Code showing beverage laws are accessable here.

Taking some of the suggestions that some of you have discussed with me in person, I think we need to have a small group of people attend this meeting on Nov. 24, and perhaps I can get the GM of Havana to join us. I don't agree with picketing and getting nasty on this issue, I just think we need to make a compromise within the letter of the law and make everyone happy. There have been excellent posts on this thread with a lot of passion and good information. Now its a matter of negotiating a compromise.

I think the first thing to do, is to contact the Sheriff's office to find out what is the problem here. I would think to we should all be on the same page with the Sheriff's office so that we can come up with a solution. I will try to stop by their office this afternoon to see if I can discuss this with anyone.

I don't want to be the leader of this entire situation and will ask for volunteers to assist me. Its WAYYYYY over my peabrain, so I'll look to some others for advice and assistance.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by F16 1UB

Hmmm !?!?!?!?!?! "And MY point is" Don't you think your point has been made or are you trying to convince yourself. Yep - sounds like a political arena.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record to you F16. I congratulate you if you understand my point. Obviously there are others who just don't get it and think that:
- there is a curfew,
- entertainment options in the town squares are being curtailed,
- CCs have traditionally had late night outdoor music and are now being shut down,
- those who are advocating for the neighbors of Havana are against late night entertainment and just want the sidewalks rolled up at 8 PM

So, you really counted my posts??? Wow! As long as you are in a counting mood and as as long as you seem to understand my points, why not count up all the posts of the people who don't understand the above issues.

[Bogie Shooter]

This is beginning to look more and more like it should be in the political section.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by Freeda

Just wanted to mention that I heard some information yesterday from someone who was at Havana last Sunday night; and who said that according to the manager there it was one homeowner who complained.

On the other hand, about 100 or more people were there, enjoying the outdoor music on the patio on a lovely Sunday evening, and they all or mostly left when the music stopped. The suggestion that it should not be just 'about me' as was mentioned earlier should apply to these facts, too; and it's hard to see this as a 'trampling' of rights if only one person complained, particularly if the music's sound volume complied with ordinances; some earlier posts said that it did; but the point is that unless it was shown that it didn't, then there was nothing wrong with the music playing.

The fact that there are venues at the squares does not answer the issue of the rights of other businesses, and the rights of villagers who prefer different or other types of - or later - entertainment, and different settings for it, to have other options, as long as they are not shown to be violative of the law.

Those who are content with the offerings at the squares - which do offer great entertainment - are free to limit themselves to there; but that does not justify them in imposing their choices, and those limitations, on everyone else.

Freeda, you make some interesting and some valid points. However, let me comment on some of them:
1) Your first point about hearing from someone who heard from the manager is kind of like double hearsay, don't you think? Also, this was just one night. What about all of the other nights? Wouldn't a better metric of complaints be to sum up all of the complaints from unique individuals since the inception the late night entertainment?
2)Your assumption of the complainant being one person (whether this assumption is valid or not) being outweighed by the many people assumes that "loss" associated with each side is equivalent. In the case of the "many" the loss is no more than having to go a few minutes away to another venue. In the case of the homeowner(s) it is the nightly loss of the tranquility in their home and the limitation of the enjoyment of their home. Maybe it's just me, but I think the latter far outweighs a few minute's drive.
3) The claims that the legal limits on noise were met sound highly suspicious to me. As noted, the law talks about a quantitative measurement to be taken at 1,000 feet. Did the manager really do a complete analysis 1,000 feet in all directions? Not likely.
4) The law also seems to allow for a more subjective test based on a "reasonable person". As you indicated, this is somewhat arbitrary. However, I doubt very much that the sheriff's department would just accept a complaint from a single homeowner and then, without checking it out, go ahead and shut the music down. I would think that the deputy would first see how loud it was him or herself before taking any action. Given that the deputy would have to be assumed to be neutral in the issues (and hence a "reasonable person"), I have to think that the sound was pretty loud at the point(s) of complaint and failed the reasonable person test.


Oh, and F16, is this number 41? I need to know because the admins are paying me on a per-post basis to keep the view count up. This is sweeps month for internet advertising and this thread is going to let them jack their advertising rates way up.

[Karaoke Junkie]

i always suspected there was something in TV water. at 8 pm it kind of makes you drowzzzzzzz........

[ripwho]

My fav rock group , The Who , will be in Miami for Super Bowl halftime festivities.. I'm working on bringing them into Havana CC for a 'special' appearance! Talk about exceeding decibels....

[BobKat1]

Originally Posted by ripwho

My fav rock group , The Who , will be in Miami for Super Bowl halftime festivities.. I'm working on bringing them into Havana CC for a 'special' appearance! Talk about exceeding decibels....

I'm sure that Pete and Roger would turn down their amps if asked nicely....Or maybe play inside.

[Frangyomory]

This has to be an error!!! I know that the streets roll up in the squares after the entertainment is over but a CURFEW for adults?????? Who is running this place anyway????? What can we do about this....and I don't expect the Sun to say a word about it. Not good for business you know!!!