[Freeda]

. . . "Playing or permitting the playing of any radio, television, musical instrument or similar device, whether amplified or not amplified, or amplifying the human voice in such a manner or with such volume as to annoy or disturb the quiet, comfort and repose of a reasonable person in any type of residence or place of business . . . "

This ordinance language answers nothing, because it is ambiguous and arbitrary . . ie, who is to say who is the fabled 'reasonable' person?

Further, the ordinance language does not proscribe ALL noise - rather, it forbids only noise at such a 'manner' or 'volume' (etc) that would bother a 'reasonable' person. This presumes that some level of sound must be expected to be tolerated by the hearer; the language does not lend itself to being able to demand total silence as the only standard that meets the test of the ordinance - if it did mean that, then the word 'reasonable' would be surplusage. Thus, merely showing that someone can hear some music is not, in and of itself, violative of the ordinance; just as we can't forbid birds singing, mowers mowing, golfers talking and laughing, etc.

[Donna]

"just as we can't forbid birds singing, mowers mowing, golfers talking and laughing, etc."

That might be next!!!

[KathieI]

Agree, I live near a golf course and maybe I should complain that the golfers yelling FORE!! (is that how its spelled???) is disturbing and they need to whisper it???????? And, yes, Donna, I can hear them laughing and talking.... STOP IT, NOW, ITS BOTHERING ME!!!

[KathieI]

Freeda, does this answer your question about the level of the noise in question??

(4) In determining whether a noise is unreasonably loud and disturbing, the following factors incident to such noise can be considered, in addition to such others as the enforcing authority deems relevant:

a. Time of day.

b. Proximity to residential structures.

c. Whether the noise is recurrent, intermittent, or constant.

d. The volume and intensity of the noise.

e. Whether the noise has been enhanced in volume or range by any type of electronic or mechanical means.

(5) Specifically, a noise source shall be considered a prohibited "noise disturbance" under the provisions of this chapter if it generates decibel levels greater than sixty (60) decibels in any residential or multifamily residential neighborhood at a point located one thousand (1,000) feet from the location generating the noise, or decibel levels greater than seventy-five (75) decibels at a point located one thousand (1,000) feet from the location generating the noise, regardless of the surrounding land use. Decibel levels shall be measured by an officer of the Sumter County Sheriff's Department, using equipment specifically designed for decibel measurement.

[Freeda]

. . . and, oooooohhh . . the incessant honks of those geese - they must be made to hold it down, or they are out of here, too!

[Freeda]

Originally Posted by KathieI

Freeda, does this answer your question about the level of the noise in question??

(4) In determining whether a noise is unreasonably loud and disturbing, the following factors incident to such noise can be considered, in addition to such others as the enforcing authority deems relevant:

a. Time of day.

b. Proximity to residential structures.

c. Whether the noise is recurrent, intermittent, or constant.

d. The volume and intensity of the noise.

e. Whether the noise has been enhanced in volume or range by any type of electronic or mechanical means.

(5) Specifically, a noise source shall be considered a prohibited "noise disturbance" under the provisions of this chapter if it generates decibel levels greater than sixty (60) decibels in any residential or multifamily residential neighborhood at a point located one thousand (1,000) feet from the location generating the noise, or decibel levels greater than seventy-five (75) decibels at a point located one thousand (1,000) feet from the location generating the noise, regardless of the surrounding land use. Decibel levels shall be measured by an officer of the Sumter County Sheriff's Department, using equipment specifically designed for decibel measurement.

(5) is an objective test, assuming an accurate meter; and you had said in an earlier post that the sound volume at Havana on Monday night at 8:30 was less than that allowed by (5) standard, so I feel that should have been the end of the complaint.

To me (4) is arbitrary to the extent that it would be interpreted to proscribe music levels that comply with the standard of (5), at least during reasonable hours, which to me, as I mentioned in an earlier post, would be 10 PM weeknights and midnight on weekends. I don't see that parts (4) b, c, d, and e add anything that is not already covered by the sound level standard of (5), ie, if the sound level complies with the test that is allowed by (5), why should it matter whether it is constant vs. intermittent, or what its 'proximity' is to residences?

[Blondie]

I understand that thoughtful people (that is people who think) can disagree; however; if the noise level and hours of outdoor entertainment are reasonable (as defined by law) there should be no issue.

I also realize that some folks will never be satisfied until their mission is accomplished. I, for one, love all the music that embodies this wonderful place in which we are fortunate enough to live. I sincerely hope that this joy will not be sucked out of The Villages by a few unreasonable folks (as defined by me).

[Donna]

Originally Posted by Blondie

I understand that thoughtful people (that is people who think) can disagree; however; if the noise level and hours of outdoor entertainment are reasonable (as defined by law) there should be no issue.

I also realize that some folks will never be satisfied until their mission is accomplished. I, for one, love all the music that embodies this wonderful place in which we are fortunate enough to live. I sincerely hope that this joy will not be sucked out of The Villages by a few unreasonable folks (as defined by me).

Very well put!!!!

[chelsea24]

I just read all the posts and I absolutely agree that 8pm is ridiculous! We are not children. We've worked hard all of our lives to enjoy our "golden years." TV is made up of homes, not nursing homes!

But, hold onto your hat NJBlue. People are reaching their "golden years" at a younger and younger age. The wave of baby boomers (of which I'm one) hasn't even hit yet. I was lucky enough to move down here a bit earlier. When the baby boomers hit TV, everything will start staying open later and later. Back in Chicago, we were just going out to dinner at 8pm. Music and dancing after. We're not pups, but we're not dead yet either!

When we were here on our lifestyle previews, we were always so tired from looking at houses, I really didn't notice the streets rolling up at 9. Then when we first moved here, I remember walking through LSL after 9pm saying "You've got to be kidding! Where are the peeps!" I thought we bought into some strange horror movie!

But, now, two years later, we have just started to find places open like Havana and Gators. I say "Yipeeeeee!" And, though there is some complaining now, I truly believe this is just the beginning of the trend to have entertainment stay open, at the very least until 10pm.

Times... they are a'changin'..... And I think for the better. It's probably two old f*rts, that either can't find the energy or their teeth to go out and join the party!

Hey, I look at this as more of a "Resort" community. The people we pal around with are young at heart, lively and not in their jammie's at 8pm. And, HELL YES, we want to be outside! That's why we bought in Florida!

This too shall pass. If there is a protest, I'll join it. If there is a petition, I'll sign it. These moaners should have carefully considered this before they bought. Maybe Havana wasn't active yet, but the potential for "music and joy" was there.

To future buyers: If you see tracks, ask about the train. If you're near a CC or Rec Center, ask about any late night entertainment or noise. If you see a highway (like we have) gauge the traffic! For God's sake use your brain and don't complain later!!!

And, oh baby..... couldn't someone open up a nice, sultry piano bar for really late night pleasure and a night cap!

[CJ]

I love good music...especially dancing to a live band. This issue tugs at my heart as I recognize we need more nightly entertainment here in TV. 9pm is too early to pack it in....wish the powers that be would let the town square stay open til 10pm. Havana has a great idea about music and dancing...maybe there is a middle ground....they can enclose the area outside which will accomodate the neighbors who decided to move here to sleep at 8pm and let the party roll for the rest of TV?

The area is large and hardly used during the day anyway.

[DDoug]

I live in Virginia Tr. and I can hear the music from LSL and now with the windows open we even know what the songs are should I complain what the h--- for, I dont want you people to have any fun. Be real folks. Maybe the CC are eating away at the square business.

[nanci2539]

I had to respond to this! We have freinds who back up to the Havana Country Club. They do not mind the music or noise because to them it's enjoyable and for the most part, the "people" noise stops around 9-9:30. The music stops at 9PM.

Now this isn't an issue for them but what is are the frogs croaking at night, non stop. Put hundreds of frogs in a pond, trust me, it sounds like a squeaky baby toy that's magnified. It goes on all night. They can't even sit in their lanai because the noise over powers any conversation you want to have. And they can't keep their windows open at night either. Until you hear this, you can't believe it's that annoying.

And, the country clubs send in their cleaners in the middle of the night. The residents that back up to the club were awaken by banging and yelling in the wee hours of the morning. This they complained about and for the most part, I think it stopped or they work very quietly now.

The post about contacting Gary Morse about the curfew would get a response. Mr. Morse does not like complaints. I find the best avenue is to email him directly. The emails go to his assistant but she does bring any resident issues to him. I bet if he got a hundred or so emails about this (the curfew), he'll do something.

[otherbruddaDarrell]

Originally Posted by DDoug

I live in Virginia Tr. and I can hear the music from LSL and now with the windows open we even know what the songs are should I complain what the h--- for, I dont want you people to have any fun. Be real folks. Maybe the CC are eating away at the square business.

It does appear that the squares do not have as many people for this time of the year.(business)
I would think the "free" music that is provided costs them around $500-$2500 per night depending on the group.
If the squares do not generate enough interest then it might cause the powers to be to curtail it.
I did not move here for the music that the CC's might provide, I moved here because of the lifestyle which includes the entertainment on the squares.
Everyone that moved here knows that the music is over at 9pm.
That is a reasonable time for outside music.
Support the squares and preserve what we have before we have to start whining about not having entertainment there.

[Talk Host]

I have had some experience in using a "decibel measuring device" to determine if noise is exceeding the allowable level.

Here's the issue. Where do you position the device to take the measurement? (absolute versus relative) Do you stand at the origin of the noise? Do you walk a block away? Do you go to the home of the complainant and get into bed with them?

A 120 decibel reading at the bandstand is much less a block away.

Noise ordinance enforcement is a new phenomenon. If 8 p.m. music shutdowns are made to stick, then it is also a violation for you to ride your Harley Davidson after 8 p.m. Laughter can exceed 100 decibels too. So, if you think something is funny after 8 p.m., stifle the laugh until the next morning. Remember too that normal conversation is 70 to 80 decibels and shouting is 90 decibels.

But consider this, a train whistle exceeds 120 decibels at the horn but is 90 decibels at 500'. Music on a bandstand is 120-150 decibels, so, it too, is about 90 decibels at 500'. Anything over 80 decibels is considered hazardous.

If a tree falls in a forest and the noise exceeds 80 decibels and it's after 8 p.m. but there is nobody there to hear it, is it a violation of the noise ordinance.

[scottke]

After reading all of these posts I am amazed at many of them. We bought a beautiful home and the lifestyle that went with it. We aren't on the Mallory golf course but we can hear music (granted it doesn't go late) from there and isn't it great! We can still hear! A reasonable hour to us isn't 8:00. We like the square and then like to go to the CC's if there is no early tee time the next day. 10:00 seems more than fair for adults. 8:00 - pleeeze. We're behind anything that needs to be done to make this reasonable for all.