[DDoug]

It's fun sometimes to read this site but in this case what really is the issue.I work full time and I go to bed around 9 or so if there is some noise you close your windows what IS the big deal.

[djplong]

remember the "reasonable person" clause?

Well if, as someone posted uptopic, it's the SAME *ONE* person calling at 8:30 - and ONLY that person, then you can start to believe that one person does not "reasonable" make. If it were a lot of people, then you'd have an better argument.

ONE person out of a neighborhood complaining tells me that the definition of "reasonable" doesn't qualify (in absence of any other information). A whole neighborhood calling? Different story.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by djplong

remember the "reasonable person" clause?

Well if, as someone posted uptopic, it's the SAME *ONE* person calling at 8:30 - and ONLY that person, then you can start to believe that one person does not "reasonable" make. If it were a lot of people, then you'd have an better argument.

ONE person out of a neighborhood complaining tells me that the definition of "reasonable" doesn't qualify (in absence of any other information). A whole neighborhood calling? Different story.

I agree with this analysis. Note that the original post in this epic talked about "numerous" complaints. If these were all from the same person we may be able to write it off as a crank. However, if the numerous complaints came from numerous people then perhaps they have an issue.

[Freeda]

Originally Posted by Talk Host

I have had some experience in using a "decibel measuring device" to determine if noise is exceeding the allowable level.

Here's the issue. Where do you position the device to take the measurement? (absolute versus relative) Do you stand at the origin of the noise? Do you walk a block away? Do you go to the home of the complainant and get into bed with them?

A 120 decibel reading at the bandstand is much less a block away.

Noise ordinance enforcement is a new phenomenon. If 8 p.m. music shutdowns are made to stick, then it is also a violation for you to ride your Harley Davidson after 8 p.m. Laughter can exceed 100 decibels too. So, if you think something is funny after 8 p.m., stifle the laugh until the next morning. Remember too that normal conversation is 70 to 80 decibels and shouting is 90 decibels.

But consider this, a train whistle exceeds 120 decibels at the horn but is 90 decibels at 500'. Music on a bandstand is 120-150 decibels, so, it too, is about 90 decibels at 500'. Anything over 80 decibels is considered hazardous.

If a tree falls in a forest and the noise exceeds 80 decibels and it's after 8 p.m. but there is nobody there to hear it, is it a violation of the noise ordinance.

Those numbers give us some help. The ordinance standard that was quoted last night was:

" . . if it generates decibel levels greater than sixty (60) decibels in any residential or multifamily residential neighborhood at a point located one thousand (1,000) feet from the location generating the noise . . . "

If music on a bandstand, which I presume means a full band, which I believe would be louder than the typical music that is playing at the CC's or restaurants here, dissipates from 120-150 decibels to becoming only 90 decibels at 500', then at another 500' distance (referring to the 1000' distance used in the ordinance) one would think that that sound level would dissipate to less than 60 decibels (the standard).

Assuming that is true, the lesser level of sound from the typical music being played outside here in TV, which is probably much less than that of a full band playing outdoors, would probably have to be less than 60 decibels at 1000 feet away.

(1000 feet is nearly 3 football fields! The next question is . . . are there homes within 1000 feet of the CC's/ restaurants?)

I don't know how the meters work, but it would seem to me you would have to measure the 1000 feet distance from the source, and take a reading at that distance (which would seem to be the most accurate); unless the meters are able to project for distance reading.

(Maybe a decibel meter will become a standard accessory for going out for the evening in TV?)

[MelZ]

Originally Posted by NJblue

I agree with this analysis. Note that the original post in this epic talked about "numerous" complaints. If these were all from the same person we may be able to write it off as a crank. However, if the numerous complaints came from numerous people then perhaps they have an issue.

I have read and stood on the sideline but I think I need to comment now. Ending the music at 8pm is nuts I am just finishing my dinner and would like to enjoy the music while I digest.

NJBLUE numerous complaints could come from a single source (maybe you), I bought my house in a retirement community not a old age home. The music was part of the attraction.

NJ BLUE with all due respect you purchased a house near a country club not a cemetery you posts remind me of the person who buys a house near a farm and then complains about the smell and animals.

let's all chant in unison "KEEP THE MUSIC ALIVE"

[Talk Host]

Originally Posted by Freeda

Those numbers give us some help. The ordinance standard that was quoted last night was:

" . . if it generates decibel levels greater than sixty (60) decibels in any residential or multifamily residential neighborhood at a point located one thousand (1,000) feet from the location generating the noise . . . "

If music on a bandstand, which I presume means a full band, which I believe would be louder than the typical music that is playing at the CC's or restaurants here, dissipates from 120-150 decibels to becoming only 90 decibels at 500', then at another 500' distance (referring to the 1000' distance used in the ordinance) one would think that that sound level would dissipate to less than 60 decibels (the standard).

Assuming that is true, the lesser level of sound from the typical music being played outside here in TV, which is probably much less than that of a full band playing outdoors, would probably have to be less than 60 decibels at 1000 feet away.

(1000 feet is nearly 3 football fields! The next question is . . . are there homes within 1000 feet of the CC's/ restaurants?)

I don't know how the meters work, but it would seem to me you would have to measure the 1000 feet distance from the source, and take a reading at that distance (which would seem to be the most accurate); unless the meters are able to project for distance reading.

(Maybe a decibel meter will become a standard accessory for going out for the evening in TV?)

Let's not forget too, that residents are "indoors" which further mutes the decibel level at 1000'. The ordinance stand if the reading is taken 1000' "unobstructed." Put some walls in the way, and it drops to a mere din I think.

JLK

[JUREK]

Originally Posted by MelZ

I have read and stood on the sideline but I think I need to comment now. Ending the music at 8pm is nuts I am just finishing my dinner and would like to enjoy the music while I digest.

NJBLUE numerous complaints could come from a single source (maybe you), I bought my house in a retirement community not a old age home. The music was part of the attraction.

NJ BLUE with all due respect you purchased a house near a country club not a cemetery you posts remind me of the person who buys a house near a farm and then complains about the smell and animals.

let's all chant in unison "KEEP THE MUSIC ALIVE"

Must agree with most of you guys.
When I bought my house about 150 feet from the Ashland pool I thought it out. I like the proximity that I could throw on some trunks and walk there in less than a minute. Now should I complain because the pool area becomes a bit load at times ? I don't think so. I say music until 10PM . I wouldn't care if the pool was open until that time also.

[Freeda]

If you are reading this thread, it would be helpful if you would express your opinion this issue, the implications of which have significant relevance to lifestyle issues here, both now and in the future and, therefore potentially, even home values here. As was suggested in earlier posts, will others want to move here if it is buttoned up after 8 PM?

This forum is a good check of the pulse of TV, even though informal, and could be a factor in how some issues get resolved.

[Whalen]

Originally Posted by NJblue

I agree with this analysis. Note that the original post in this epic talked about "numerous" complaints. If these were all from the same person we may be able to write it off as a crank. However, if the numerous complaints came from numerous people then perhaps they have an issue.

Just to set the record straight, I started this epic and never mentioned
'numerous" complaints.
I did however wonder who the cranky old Bas--rds were who did complain.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by MelZ

I have read and stood on the sideline but I think I need to comment now. Ending the music at 8pm is nuts I am just finishing my dinner and would like to enjoy the music while I digest.

NJBLUE numerous complaints could come from a single source (maybe you), I bought my house in a retirement community not a old age home. The music was part of the attraction.

NJ BLUE with all due respect you purchased a house near a country club not a cemetery you posts remind me of the person who buys a house near a farm and then complains about the smell and animals.

let's all chant in unison "KEEP THE MUSIC ALIVE"

Mel, you may claim to have read these posts, but I suggest you go back and read them again because you clearly have not comprehended them. I do not live near any country club. I also said that 8 PM is too early to stop the music. I also acknowledged (in the actual post that you quoted!!!) that if the numerous complaints were from one person it may be written off as a crank.

[NJblue]

Whalen, with all due respect, you DID say that there were numerous complaints:

Originally Posted by Whalen

Just wondering...

How many posters are happy with the 8 PM curfew now in effect for entertainment at local Country Clubs?

Was at Havana CC this evening while the Sheriff was shutting down the entainment at about 7:45 due to numerous complaints!

Had I known I was expected to be in bed by 8PM I might have moved elsewhere.

All kidding aside, I live very close to Havana CC, do not mind the music, in fact I enjoy it, and just want to know why the big fuss about about music at the CC?

Oh, and who the hell are the cranky old Bast--ds who complained?

[quill]

Years ago when we bought property in California we had to sign a letter from the county that stated we understood there were going to be strange smells and sounds when living in the country. Remember this was California. Guess there were too many people complaining about country living after buying country land for country living. This also reminds me of a guy that buys land under the flight path of an airport because it is inexpensive and then complains about the noise and wants the airport closed. It is called due diligence for a reason.

[chelsea24]

OK, let's not start nitpicking each other and parsing words! The point is does ANYONE have a plan of action??? What do we do next??? I'm on board.

Anyone??? Anyone???

[KathieI]

Originally Posted by chelsea24

OK, let's not start knit-picking each other and parsing words! The point is does ANYONE have a plan of action??? What do we do next??? I'm on board.

Anyone??? Anyone???

Definitely, there will be a plan, we can't let this go too easily.

Shall we do post to vote different options?? I'm off to the gym but will try to do one later.

[chuckster]

[QUOTE=Whalen;233793]Just wondering...


Was at Havana CC this evening while the Sheriff was shutting down the entainment at about 7:45 due to numerous complaints!

..Believe I'm reading "numerous complaints" in your original statement...........

Having visited all the country clubs over 6 years have found the following; Lopez music in bar; Glenview music (on rare ocassions) in the bar; Palmer in the breeseway (summers); Mallory in the breeseway; Tiera del Sol inside; Hacienda inside and on ocassion at the Tiki bar; Havana in the breesway.
9 - 10pm seems a reasonable time to end the evening at the clubs. Later hours could be confined to the squares.

In my other life my country clubs emphasized golf, bar and food with an ocassional reception for extra revenue. No nightly entertainment......

Music groups fine but tone deaf karaoke artists should confine themselves to their showers with fan on HIGH. Although after 11pm, drunk and hearing impaired improves the music.