[bkcunningham1]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

Hello again,
I really did try to find an answer to your question, however, now even my husband is unsure and thinks maybe Vermont land owners can hunt without a license but only during the short hunting season.....not year round. He doesn''t know for certain.

The Vermont Wildlife Hunting & Fishing link has not yet answered my email.

I cannot find a definitive answer to your question....although I did learn a lot about the deer population and who can apply for a license. No info on who is allowed to hunt without a license, if at all. There are free licenses.

Perhaps someone else does know.

I looked it up on the same state link for Vermont and couldn't find an answer either. Thank you for taking the time to look though.

Originally Posted by BobKat1

I'll say one thing, if nothing else, the title of this thread is certainly an attention grabber.

That is very close to the Title of the Orlando Sentinel article linked by the Shadow.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,2346627.story


"Wildlife violations: Florida man accused of cutting off elk legs with chain saw...."


Sort of like the Montana Elk Chainsaw Massacre.

There seems to be a lynch mob sort of vibe from the Comments section of the Orlando Sentinel article.


ptenant09--
"Leave these arsholes in the woods to die."

theroyalty--
"dress these guys up like elk."

[senior citizen]

Just received following response from Charles Drury at Vermont State Government Wildlife:

Question: Does a land owner in Vermont need a license to hunt on his land?

EXCEPTIONS TO LICENSE REQUIREMENTS:
A resident owner of land in Vermont, his or her spouse, and minor children may hunt within the boundary of that land and take fish from a private pond within the boundary of that land without a license within season. Hunting and fishing must be done according to regulations. A nonresident owner of the land has equal privilege if his or her land is NOT posted.

(Meaning posted NO HUNTING).

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by LuvItHere

Lauren Richie stated, in another thread here, that it is her JOB to put slant on what she writes because she is a "columnist paid to write in such a way that it convinces readers" of her slant . . . which is bias. I think everyone here knows that her disdain for the Morses' political party is the motive for her bias.

So why, when she writes in a "news" story, should we believe that this is objective, fact-only reporting and not sensationalism meant to convince readers of her slant against "The Rich"???

Living elsewhere I really don't have an opinion on any disdain for the Morse family......however, the Orlando paper must have received their information from the Montana newspapers, correct? A felony is a felony. I doubt if they are handing out charges without something to back it up. Perhaps he felt that he was entitled to hunt on his own land without a license, as I just discovered Vermont landowners can indeed do. But if their law states otherwise, then he no doubt will never serve a prison term but will pay a hefty fine. To "hide" the news would be worse than exposing the news.
People are pretty smart and will draw their own conclusions when the total facts are in.......but why is everyone afraid to respond ? Prisons are overcrowded and I doubt if they would go to prison for poaching or dismembering elk. In North Carolina a sweet little girl's murderer is the one who should be worrying right now. The buzz is that the dad used his woodchipper to dismember her body after she "died"; the stepmom wrote a fake ransom note.....it's little Zahra Baker I'm referring to.

[bkcunningham1]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

Living elsewhere I really don't have an opinion on any disdain for the Morse family......however, the Orlando paper must have received their information from the Montana newspapers, correct? A felony is a felony. I doubt if they are handing out charges without something to back it up. Perhaps he felt that he was entitled to hunt on his own land without a license, as I just discovered Vermont landowners can indeed do. But if their law states otherwise, then he no doubt will never serve a prison term but will pay a hefty fine. To "hide" the news would be worse than exposing the news.
People are pretty smart and will draw their own conclusions when the total facts are in.......but why is everyone afraid to respond ? Prisons are overcrowded and I doubt if they would go to prison for poaching or dismembering elk. In North Carolina a sweet little girl's murderer is the one who should be worrying right now. The buzz is that the dad used his woodchipper to dismember her body after she "died"; the stepmom wrote a fake ransom note.....it's little Zahra Baker I'm referring to.

Excellent post. I started to correct you when you said a felony is a felony. But you are correct as far as Montana felonies go. Some states have different classes of felonies. Not Montana. A felony is a felony in Montana. It is just the punishment that varies in Montana.

It is the same in your state of Vermont. North Carolina has different classes of felonies.

[mgm4444]

Is there a way the subject title to this thread could be changed?

I'll probably catch H-E double hockey sticks for my request, but everytime I log into TOTV and see this thread, I get sick to my stomach.

Not asking for feedback or a poll...just a request.

thanks

[The Shadow]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

Ayup, however, I'm no expert but doesn't the butcher have to use some type of cleaver to cut through the bones. So much of the meat comes already packaged but some butcher someplace is using an electric gizmo which might be similar to a chainsaw. Any retired butchers out there?

I'm guessing again as I'm no hunter myself, but I think the deer in Vermont are taken home and hung up to age before they butcher them. Anyone know ? Some do it themselves and it wouldn't surprise me at all in the State of Vermont if the guys did use a chainsaw. Others took it to a butcher and I have no idea what they use to cut through the bones and carcass,etc.

My husband always defended his hunting with the fact that we all eat beef and chicken and other forms of meat that were once walking around before being killed. But that is another subject entirely.

The article in the paper was on trophy hunting not on the need for food.

In the late 60’s I could not get a job in my line of work so my uncle got me a job in a meat packing plant (AP) we cut 500 to 750 sides of beef a day. The side comes in on an overhead track it is put on a band saw and the first cut is made, the two pieces are put on a conveyer belt, a man on one side grabs ever like piece and puts it on another band saw. Those two pieces go back on the conveyer built. At this point four different cuts are on the conveyer. I do no remember how many saws were on the line. Meat cleavers and chain saws were not used. The beef was not killed at the plant. Butchers volunteered to cut pork on overtime it was not mandatory to cut pork. The butchers wear stainless steel mesh gloves but still a sharp pork bone can pass thru the mesh and pierce the skin resulting in a local shin infection ever time it happens. I lifted 70 to 120 pounds of meat every 30 to 45 seconds. I collected and weighted scraps at the end of the conveyor, The meat was used for hamburger. After 90 days the union head said I had to join the union, my reply you are nuts if you think I would pay you to work in this place. Goodbye. Oh the temp in the cutting room was 32.5 degrees.

[nitehawk]

Originally Posted by LuvItHere

Lauren Richie stated, in another thread here, that it is her JOB to put slant on what she writes because she is a "columnist paid to write in such a way that it convinces readers" of her slant . . . which is bias. I think everyone here knows that her disdain for the Morses' political party is the motive for her bias.

So why, when she writes in a "news" story, should we believe that this is objective, fact-only reporting and not sensationalism meant to convince readers of her slant against "The Rich"???

Who is everybodyy??? Everybody that reads or post on TV. I for one am glad to read about the IRS bond problem - yes it maybe bias - but thats her JOB. her disdain for the Morses' political party is the motive for her bias. Do we know that for sure - has she been tried and convicted by everybody?? or just the TV participants "Don't throw stones at a glass house"

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by The Shadow

In the late 60’s I could not get a job in my line of work so my uncle got me a job in a meat packing plant (AP) we cut 500 to 750 sides of beef a day. The side comes in on an overhead track it is put on a band saw and the first cut is made, the two pieces are put on a conveyer belt, a man on one side grabs ever like piece and puts it on another band saw. Those two pieces go back on the conveyer built. At this point four different cuts are on the conveyer. I do no remember how many saws were on the line. Meat cleavers and chain saws were not used. The beef was not killed at the plant. Butchers volunteered to cut pork on overtime it was not mandatory to cut pork. The butchers wear stainless steel mesh gloves but still a sharp pork bone can pass thru the mesh and pierce the skin resulting in a local shin infection ever time it happens. I lifted 70 to 120 pounds of meat every 30 to 45 seconds. I collected and weighted scraps at the end of the conveyor, The meat was used for hamburger. After 90 days the union head said I had to join the union, my reply you are nuts if you think I would pay you to work in this place. Goodbye. Oh the temp in the cutting room was 32.5 degrees.

The 32 degrees temperature sounds like a balmy day in Vermont, seriously.

This would be way before your time, however, a book written by Upton Sinclair exposed the terrible conditions in the meat packing or butchering industry long before unions ever existed.

THE JUNGLE is the name of the book and it was given to my husband when we first relocated to Vermont from New Jersey in 1970. He really wanted to press a point about unions I guess.

The fellow was a 40 year old artist craftsman from the old beatnik era in New York City and no doubt a socialist or perhaps even a communist. My husband was not interested in reading the book but I did read it and was shocked by the working conditions for these mostly, at the time, immigrant workers.

I do believe the unions helped their plight eventually. As a matter of fact, I was just thinking of that book recently as it pertained to some of the immigrants' hardships when they first came to our country in the late 1800's or early 1900's......while doing genealogy research of my own.

No one I know was in the meat business, however, the immigrants in THE JUNGLE suffered quite a bit from unkind bosses at the time. My father's ancestors had to work in the garment industry in N.Y.C. before turn of the century and that was just as bad. I'm sure things have changed with all the rules and regulations of modern times.

Driving out to Colorado this past summer we went past quite a few of the large cattle yards and I'm sure they are not leading a happy life either before they get slaughtered. Omaha Steaks and Kansas City Steaks are out that way.

You are lucky you never fell into the sausage vat like the poor soul in the JUNGLE by Upton Sinclair . Just kidding. It is a mind opening book to those who've never known the hardships of their immigrant ancestors. I read everything; this is why I wouldn't want newspaper censorship.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

Who is everybodyy??? Everybody that reads or post on TV. I for one am glad to read about the IRS bond problem - yes it maybe bias - but thats her JOB. her disdain for the Morses' political party is the motive for her bias. Do we know that for sure - has she been tried and convicted by everybody?? or just the TV participants "Don't throw stones at a glass house"

We actually know newspaper reporters here in our town. They are just doing their job.

I began reading the Orlando Sentinel when little Caylee Anthony went missing.......and check it out every now and then.

It is a scary paper to read with all the murders and other crimes daily.
Hopefully TV is far enough away so that it is not affected by the Orlando stuff and remains peacefully in its bubble, safe for all those who call it home or who would like to retire to central Florida.

[The Shadow]

To all do not buy hamburger in a tube you can not see thru that product is made in the meat packing plant. Why? No meat is wasted even if it is bad or on the floor.

[LuvItHere]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

Who is everybodyy??? Everybody that reads or post on TV. I for one am glad to read about the IRS bond problem - yes it maybe bias - but thats her JOB. her disdain for the Morses' political party is the motive for her bias. Do we know that for sure - has she been tried and convicted by everybody?? or just the TV participants "Don't throw stones at a glass house"

You are right. I definitely generalized on that one. I do think political party is at the root of much criticism or disdain of the Morses.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by redwitch

Sorry, Shadow, I can't say thanks for the link. I don't think it has any relevance. It is nothing really new. We already knew Rainey left the carcass and kept the trophy head. The fact he cut off the legs is disgusting, cruel, ugly, but irrelevant.

I sincerely hope that Morse, Rainey, et al., get whatever is deserved. I know it is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but everything I've read screams guilty. If I were on a jury in Montana for this case, I would have to be excused because I do believe all of the events occurred and I know them to be illegal.

As to Gracie, she really is as sweet as she sounds. She can (rarely) get cranky and even occasionally snaps, but on the whole she tries very hard to see the best in people. Heck, she even talks to me and gives me much needed hugs even though she knows I'm no fan of the Morses (TV, yes; the Morse family, no).

As to discussions in TV about this incident, it is definitely talked about. I play Mah-Jongg with a group of ladies whose knowledge of the internet is somewhere between slim and none. None of them have ever gone near TOTV that I know of. They all knew about the poaching. Three of them were upset about it; two really didn't see that it mattered in the grand scheme of TV; two didn't believe it all. So, if these seven women knew about this incident, I'm guessing it is pretty much common knowledge in TV.

Why should the link have not been posted? It is relevant to The Villages ownership and therefore a topic that many in TV would presumably have an interest in knowing. To love TV is fine, though I am sure there are a certain number of Villagers who do not agree, and that is their perogative, but they will not likely be on this website. Loving TV and worshiping the Morse family, are mutually exclusive IMO. Those who would advocate this should not be posted are guilty of favoring censorship. You can accept the story or not, but it is apparently big news in Montana and may become big news in TV. None of this would cause me a moments concern about living in The Villages, or loving the lifestyle.

[Number 6]

And it appears to be a very relevent topic on TOTV as this is post #89! Keep up the good work, Shadow!

[K9-Lovers]

Everytime someone posts something that is/could be/might be/may be a little bit negative, there are some people that make insinuations about the person who orginated the post. This happens especially to first-time posters as well as others who have been on this forum for a while, like this occurrence with Shadow.

The people who make the insinuations discourage people from posting. I find that annoying and dismaying.

There were already two very active threads about this topic when this thread was posted. Obviously, it is of interest to Villagers, or there would be no activity. And, Shadow made no comment for or against the content -- he merely provided information. I can understand why he reacted when insinuations were made about him.

If someone wants to comment on the CONTENT of a post, that is appropriate. Commenting on the character of the person who made the post is, at best, rude.