[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac

A long while ago on TOTV there were some rumors about sexual assaults at a local supermarket parking lot near one of the Villages' town squares.

It sounded like there was something to this but there were various verbal attacks made by TOTV members by the poster(s) trying to bring these to light.

What is unclear about the fact that women often do not report crimes against them for fear of having their characters put into question? This is especially true when involving domestic violence.

Even on this thread, the victim is not given the benefit of the doubt that there was an actual "attack". It seemed like the concern was more with the image of the sports pools rather than the well being of the woman using the pool.

The security at the sports pools does seem a genuine concern if a man can just walk into the area where women are naked. This goes the other way too with a woman walking in where there are naked men except that men are usually a lot more physically imposing than women. Even though I have met a lot of women who I would not want to meet in a dark alley at night if they were in a mugging mood.

That would me be me and PTurner. I am also frightening naked.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac

A long while ago on TOTV there were some rumors about sexual assaults at a local supermarket parking lot near one of the Villages' town squares.

It sounded like there was something to this but there were various verbal attacks made by TOTV members by the poster(s) trying to bring these to light.

What is unclear about the fact that women often do not report crimes against them for fear of having their characters put into question? This is especially true when involving domestic violence.

Another one.

[Annabelle]

Originally Posted by The Great Fumar

It means were not buying it . If an incident of that magnitude happened in this place the rumors would be all over the place in a matter of hours.....I called a friend of mine who is in a position to know and he said this is the first he had heard of it .........In my opinion your getting bad information.........

Perhaps you should have called another friend "who is in a position to know" before you called PromisesKept a "liar."

Annnabelle

[Annabelle]

[QUOTE=784caroline;295774]************************************************** ****

"According to the Dept of REC , "Lake Miona staff was approached by two females that there was an alleged male in the women’s restroom shower". NO WHERE is the term ATTACK used or even implied as it was used in the original post. I think that qualifies as "Embellishment" since attack truly implies a significant and serious event."

As it turns out, Pk's post was correct. According to John Rohan (director of recreation) a report was made to the staff of Lake Miona by two women.

Since Mr. Rohan did not discuss the specifics of this case, it is ridiculous to declare that the word “attack” is an “exaggeration” of what actually happened.

Even if the woman in this case had not been “physically attack,” she was certainly “psychologically attack.”

Furthermore, since Mr. Rohan failed to provide the time and date on which the incident occurred, should one jump to the conclusion that this incident never happened?

Annabelle

[redwitch]

I understand Annabelle's point. We do have a tendency to quickly dismiss a first-time poster who says something negative about TV, especially if it is about a crime of any type. We quickly become defensive if someone says something negative (think bond, IRS issues), even when there is some validity in the post.

The reality is crimes do occur here. Fortunately, most are of the minor category -- not minor to the victim, but minor in the overall scheme of things (no injuries, minor property damage ...). Yes, some people will do a post to simply try to ruin the reputation of TV and make it out to be something less desirable. Even so, their "reports" usually are something that easily could have occurred, if not based on some fact. Just because it is the first post by an individual doesn't mean it didn't happen or couldn't happen.

In this case, Promises started by saying it was a rumor, but wanted to give us a head's up anyway. (As to why extra care should be taken at sports pools, it is quite simple -- neighborhood pools don't have showers.) She wanted to know what we knew about this incident and to let us know there was a danger. Yes, her information was exaggerated. She never claimed to know the facts, just what she had heard and, like anything repeated, things get exaggerated.

Maybe we TVers should try changing tactics a little. Rather than automatically be suspicious, perhaps we should try to get to the truth of the post like caroline did. Let's not be so quick to dismiss a negative report. They do happen here.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I understand Annabelle's point. We do have a tendency to quickly dismiss a first-time poster who says something negative about TV, especially if it is about a crime of any type. We quickly become defensive if someone says something negative (think bond, IRS issues), even when there is some validity in the post.

The reality is crimes do occur here. Fortunately, most are of the minor category -- not minor to the victim, but minor in the overall scheme of things (no injuries, minor property damage ...). Yes, some people will do a post to simply try to ruin the reputation of TV and make it out to be something less desirable. Even so, their "reports" usually are something that easily could have occurred, if not based on some fact. Just because it is the first post by an individual doesn't mean it didn't happen or couldn't happen.

In this case, Promises started by saying it was a rumor, but wanted to give us a head's up anyway. (As to why extra care should be taken at sports pools, it is quite simple -- neighborhood pools don't have showers.) She wanted to know what we knew about this incident and to let us know there was a danger. Yes, her information was exaggerated. She never claimed to know the facts, just what she had heard and, like anything repeated, things get exaggerated.

Maybe we TVers should try changing tactics a little. Rather than automatically be suspicious, perhaps we should try to get to the truth of the post like caroline did. Let's not be so quick to dismiss a negative report. They do happen here.

Well said Red. Fair and balanced. I have taken it to heart.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Well said Red. Fair and balanced. I have taken it to heart.

One more thing. Always take into account what lawyers might do with an incident involving a victim in a shopping center parking lot, supermarket parking lot, sports pool shower, etc. Many of these situations would involve liability on the part of the property owner if the proper precuations had not been taken.

So, I am not sure how unbiased a report from a property manager would be as to the actual facts of what had happened.

When lawsuits get involved the actual facts of what happened are harder to get at.

[graciegirl]

When I return I want to go to the sports pool locker room and see what it looks like. Most showers in womens locker rooms are enclosed. I am also curious to see how far they are from other pool users and how many people are in them usually and whether there could be confusion about entering the wrong one. As someone stated, the usual washroom, locker room situation is one door into the facility. Is this a door that closes or one that is an open hallway?

In order to correct the situation and have absolute safety in them, what would be expected? A guard in the locker room? That of course would cost money. Is the situation unsafe enough to warrant that? Do people think that this happens a lot and is covered up?

I am a neighborhood pool goer. There are just folks about my age sitting around and reading books and chatting with each other. We get wet and full of clorine and go home and take a shower. I need to understand better so I can be more compassionate.

I also will ask my next door neighbor, a retired policeman who has held jobs here in security at the squares and now works at Seabreeze in the fitness area. Maybe he knows some inside information.

[redwitch]

Gracie, I've showered in a couple of times after working and needing to be someplace and too far from home. The showers are usually on one side of the hallway, the dressing room/locker area on the other. The shower area has a curtain, 3-4 showers (no privacy between showers). The dressing room area has a door in a wide, open area (think Loehmann's dressing rooms). I think a man walking in accidently is a rare occurrence but could happen -- more because of poor signage than anything else. Probably the best thing they could do is mark the areas better. I found it very confusing the first time I went in -- didn't even know there was a shower, was just going to wash up the best I could in the sink. Also, a door to the shower area would be nice, as well as some privacy while showering.

Also, it has two entrances -- the pool side and the parking lot side. I haven't gone in from the pool side, so have no clue how that portion is marked. The parking lot side can be confusing.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

When I return I want to go to the sports pool locker room and see what it looks like. Most showers in womens locker rooms are enclosed. I am also curious to see how far they are from other pool users and how many people are in them usually and whether there could be confusion about entering the wrong one. As someone stated, the usual washroom, locker room situation is one door into the facility. Is this a door that closes or one that is an open hallway?

In order to correct the situation and have absolute safety in them, what would be expected? A guard in the locker room? That of course would cost money. Is the situation unsafe enough to warrant that? Do people think that this happens a lot and is covered up?

I am a neighborhood pool goer. There are just folks about my age sitting around and reading books and chatting with each other. We get wet and full of clorine and go home and take a shower. I need to understand better so I can be more compassionate.

I also will ask my next door neighbor, a retired policeman who has held jobs here in security at the squares and now works at Seabreeze in the fitness area. Maybe he knows some inside information.

When relatives were visiting we took them to one of the sports pools just so that an avid swimmer could look around. We just walked around so I do not know what happens on a daily basis at the sports pools.

I too am more of a neighborhood pool user rather than a sports pool frequenter.

You would expect though someone would be at least checking to see if the sports pool users had their proper Villages' IDs. No one checked our IDs when we did a look around at the Laurel Manor pool but that was three or four years ago.

[Annabelle]

[QUOTE=cabo35;295787]Perhaps you would suggest just how you would "communicate to everyone" the pertinent information."


Ever heard of a newspaper, radio, tv?

Granted, there are few details surrounding this case, and that is probably due to the manner in which this incident was handled by the staff of the Lake Miona center.

In defense of the rec center's staff, most likely they were unprepared in how to deal with this situation since a sexual assault in TV is (hopefully) a rare occurrence.

Before anyone reaches the conclusion that no crime was committed simply because the police don’t have the “name” of the woman nor a “description” of the man.....consider a few of the following facts in this case:

1) It was posted on this thread, that the attacker entered the room, turned off the lights and proceeded to grope the woman.

2) If the woman was in the shower, with water running and in total darkness..... how would she be able to identify her attacker?

3) What if the woman wore glasses, but was not wearing them when she was attacked. How could she possibly be able to give an accurate description of her assailant to the police?

4) Whenever a woman is sexually assaulted, the perpetrator is going to look for the most opportune time to attack....that is when the victim is most vulnerable and unable to defend herself. Why do you think so many rapes occur during the middle of night or when a woman is home alone.

5) The woman screamed, her screams brought one or two other women to her rescue.
During the time that these women were consoling the victim, helping her dress and seeking the aide of staff members, there was ample opportunity for the attacker to flee.

Although we do not know the age of this woman, we do know that she is a senior citizen. Perhaps being in such a distraught state of mind, she left without realizing the importance of filing a police report. But this does not mean that a crime did not occur.

If the woman is a frequent user of the sport pool it should be quite easy to identify her. If her "story" smelled the least bit fishy, it would have gone no further than her and the staff.

However, since Promiseskept heard of this incident several days after it's occurrence and because PK revealed in her post that she doesn't know the woman, then perhaps this so called "rumor" has more credence than is being given here on this site.

If a man did indeed “accidently” entered the woman’s locker room, he should come forth and put an end to this “rumor.” This would put a lot of women in TV more at ease knowing that there was not an assault at the center.

For all you “skeptics” on this thread, I am curious as to why you were so quick to dismiss this woman's complaint? Until more information is provided she certainly deserves the benefit of doubt.

I am appalled so little sympathy has been expressed (on this thread) for this woman and her ordeal...... especially from the women on TOTV.

Annabelle

[vj1213]

I agree with Annabelle. In reality none of us actually know what happened. Whether there was a grope, a sneaked peek, or simply someone accidentally walking in...only those directly involved know. I can't believe that the police were involved if in fact someone just strolled in by accident. I use the sports pool at Seabreeze and I know just from walking in and out there is just a curtain separating the hall from the showers, it would be hard not to see anyone in the shower as you passed thru. Who wouldn't feel violated if you looked up and there was a man in the hallway? And men, how would you feel about the issue if your wife or daughter came home and said they were showering at the rec center and looked up to see a man in the hallway? It is very easy for anyone to walk into the hallways unnoticed from the parking area...not saying that we live in a community of perverts, but how many hundreds of workers are also in the area on a daily basis. I'm not saying we need constant security in these areas, but I do think we need to admit that no matter how perfect our little world seems, crimes do happen and I also believe that issues will be downplayed because of legal ramifications.

[graciegirl]

[quote=Annabelle;296031]

Originally Posted by cabo35

Perhaps you would suggest just how you would "communicate to everyone" the pertinent information."


Ever heard of a newspaper, radio, tv?

Granted, there are few details surrounding this case, and that is probably due to the manner in which this incident was handled by the staff of the Lake Miona center.

In defense of the rec center's staff, most likely they were unprepared in how to deal with this situation since a sexual assault in TV is (hopefully) a rare occurrence.

Before anyone reaches the conclusion that no crime was committed simply because the police don’t have the “name” of the woman nor a “description” of the man.....consider a few of the following facts in this case:

1) It was posted on this thread, that the attacker entered the room, turned off the lights and proceeded to grope the woman.

2) If the woman was in the shower, with water running and in total darkness..... how would she be able to identify her attacker?

3) What if the woman wore glasses, but was not wearing them when she was attacked. How could she possibly be able to give an accurate description of her assailant to the police?

4) Whenever a woman is sexually assaulted, the perpetrator is going to look for the most opportune time to attack....that is when the victim is most vulnerable and unable to defend herself. Why do you think so many rapes occur during the middle of night or when a woman is home alone.

5) The woman screamed, her screams brought one or two other women to her rescue.
During the time that these women were consoling the victim, helping her dress and seeking the aide of staff members, there was ample opportunity for the attacker to flee.

Although we do not know the age of this woman, we do know that she is a senior citizen. Perhaps being in such a distraught state of mind, she left without realizing the importance of filing a police report. But this does not mean that a crime did not occur.

If the woman is a frequent user of the sport pool it should be quite easy to identify her. If her "story" smelled the least bit fishy, it would have gone no further than her and the staff.

However, since Promiseskept heard of this incident several days after it's occurrence and because PK revealed in her post that she doesn't know the woman, then perhaps this so called "rumor" has more credence than is being given here on this site.

If a man did indeed “accidently” entered the woman’s locker room, he should come forth and put an end to this “rumor.” This would put a lot of women in TV more at ease knowing that there was not an assault at the center.

For all you “skeptics” on this thread, I am curious as to why you were so quick to dismiss this woman's complaint? Until more information is provided she certainly deserves the benefit of doubt.

I am appalled so little sympathy has been expressed (on this thread) for this woman and her ordeal...... especially from the women on TOTV.

Annabelle

Annabelle.

My granddaughter, a college student in journalism interned at our local NBC affiliate this summer and she had a lot to say about the verification of facts in the news. Many stories were not aired because of inability to get information.

It is hard to give sympathy and the benefit of the doubt when you aren't sure about whether there was an incident or whether it was a rumor or whether something happened and it was worse than reported or something happened and it was not a real issue.ie someone went into the locker room by mistake. My daughter reminds me all the time not to jump to fearful conclusions. She says "when you hear footsteps in the park, it is usually not an elephant."

It isn't fair to assume that some of us aren't supportive when we really don't know WHAT happened.

[Bogie Shooter]

[quote=Annabelle;296031]

Originally Posted by cabo35

Perhaps you would suggest just how you would "communicate to everyone" the pertinent information."


Ever heard of a newspaper, radio, tv?

Granted, there are few details surrounding this case, and that is probably due to the manner in which this incident was handled by the staff of the Lake Miona center. Why blame the staff, shouldn't the "victims"share some of the blame...for leaving?
In defense of the rec center's staff, most likely they were unprepared in how to deal with this situation since a sexual assault in TV is (hopefully) a rare occurrence. What sexual assault?

Before anyone reaches the conclusion that no crime was committed simply because the police don’t have the “name” of the woman nor a “description” of the man.....consider a few of the following facts in this case:

1) It was posted on this thread, that the attacker entered the room, turned off the lights and proceeded to grope the woman. Which post confirmed there was groping?
2) If the woman was in the shower, with water running and in total darkness..... how would she be able to identify her attacker?

3) What if the woman wore glasses, but was not wearing them when she was attacked. How could she possibly be able to give an accurate description of her assailant to the police? Shouldn't the women have waited and at least given their story?
4) Whenever a woman is sexually assaulted, the perpetrator is going to look for the most opportune time to attack....that is when the victim is most vulnerable and unable to defend herself. Why do you think so many rapes occur during the middle of night or when a woman is home alone.

5) The woman screamed, her screams brought one or two other women to her rescue.
During the time that these women were consoling the victim, helping her dress and seeking the aide of staff members, there was ample opportunity for the attacker to flee. How do you know this occured?

Although we do not know the age of this woman, we do know that she is a senior citizen. Perhaps being in such a distraught state of mind, she left without realizing the importance of filing a police report. But this does not mean that a crime did not occur. Or did occur.

If the woman is a frequent user of the sport pool it should be quite easy to identify her. If her "story" smelled the least bit fishy, it would have gone no further than her and the staff. ?
However, since Promiseskept heard of this incident several days after it's occurrence and because PK revealed in her post that she doesn't know the woman, then perhaps this so called "rumor" has more credence than is being given here on this site.

If a man did indeed “accidently” entered the woman’s locker room, he should come forth and put an end to this “rumor.” This would put a lot of women in TV more at ease knowing that there was not an assault at the center. Was there an assault?
For all you “skeptics” on this thread, I am curious as to why you were so quick to dismiss this woman's complaint? Until more information is provided she certainly deserves the benefit of doubt.

I am appalled so little sympathy has been expressed (on this thread) for this woman and her ordeal...... especially from the women on TOTV. Which woman are you referring to?
Annabelle

Sorry, for asking all the questions. However, the "facts" are becoming more numerous.

[Bogie Shooter]

Be careful what you are asking for.