[Posh 08]

Originally Posted by Wing-nut2

What happened to the picture???

i still see it

[downeaster]

Originally Posted by Jack88

Buggyone, Please no not pity me, understand me. I do not live in fear because I know I can protect myself and those I love. I go to my locked door armed as I carry with an ankle holster. You will never see it, don't worry, but if needed it is at the ready. As for carrying in TV, the squares are open to the public. That should answer your question. If a couple of loons want to try something on the night I am coming out of a late movie with my wife, I will have protection.
PS: I'm sure that family in Connecticut never thought it could happen to them.

Your interesting posts are quite revealing, Jack, but leave me with questions.

Do you "carry" in an ankle holster while in the house or do you strap it on when the doorbell rings?

Do you answer the door with weapon in hand?

Have you considered one of those peep hole things so you can see who is at the door?

If you use your weapon on a "couple of loons" while coming out of the theater what protection do other theater patrons have from stray bullets?

Do your friends know you meet them at the door with your weapon "ready"?

[villagegolfer]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Thank you, Figmo, for your research. That person did have a Florida concealed weapon permit - and he still flashed his pistol as a "warning" to the other dude. You and the others have said all have taken classes and know what to do and yet one of the permit holders commits assault with a deadly weapon. Yes, he will go to prison but there are also others who might have gone further than he did and draw down on the other dude and actually shoot him over a parking space or stealing golf clubs from a cart or whatever.

Should we enact laws on might haves?

[Longrider49]

Interesting this thread started as a question regarding shooting ranges and permits. The thread was hijacked early on. FWIW, I am a member of another forum that has a section entitled the gun enthusiast that discusses much of what has been said here but includes the caveat "no anti gun rants here". I am as much a defender of the 1st amendment as anyone you'll likely encounter. However, it would be nice to discuss these issues by those of us that are pro second amendment without having to filter out the "static" offered up by the antis. Just food for thought.

[buggyone]

VillageGolfer, no where in my posts have I suggested that there should be laws against handgun ownership nor laws against carrying handguns with a proper permit.

I have stated only that it is ridiculous to carry a handgun in The Villages. I did state that I will be observant for illegal display of a gun in public but not accidental display.

I did ask if any of the gun carriers would use them against a thief they saw taking golf clubs from their cart and got no reply on that question.

I got no reply from the poster who claimed that Vermont was as safe as The Villages and that I would like to see comparable FBI violent crime statistics to back up his claim.

I did say that the only violent crime in the past 2 years I know of involved someone with a permit to carry a weapon...and an assault with deadly weapon charge against another person who flashed his gun for a parking space...and he also had a permit to carry. So much for the fallacy of all the permit carriers being good guys.

Anything else I can answer for you?

[Jack88]

Originally Posted by downeaster

Your interesting posts are quite revealing, Jack, but leave me with questions.

Do you "carry" in an ankle holster while in the house or do you strap it on when the doorbell rings?

Do you answer the door with weapon in hand?

Have you considered one of those peep hole things so you can see who is at the door?

If you use your weapon on a "couple of loons" while coming out of the theater what protection do other theater patrons have from stray bullets?

Do your friends know you meet them at the door with your weapon "ready"?

Your questions to me are dripping with sarcasm but be that as it may, please read the following and educate yourself.......

A DOZEN THINGS PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT CONCEALED WEAPONS LICENSE HOLDERS.


1) We don't carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don't walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don't get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don't hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first.
2) We don't think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren't hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don't take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness. We don't believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extraordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided.
3) We are less likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or "rage" incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don't pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want.
4) We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other security measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.
5) Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well-made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on its own.
6) We do not believe in the concept of "accidental discharges". There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun "going off" was the result of negligence on somebody's part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America.
7) Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times when an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the outline of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear thinking if they feel the need to take action. Please recognize that it's very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private security. Please don't generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like "there's a guy running around in the store with a gun" or even simply "I saw a man with a gun in the store" could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the incident.
8) The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any time. Criminals do not observe or obey "gun-free zone" laws. If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we think a location is.
9) Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases.
10) The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don't believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe "gun free zones". Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims.


11) Those with concealed carry permits are quite likely the most conspicuously law-abiding people you will encounter. In the majority of states with a permit system, the permit holder has voluntarily submitted himself or herself to a background check involving local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies. Most often, fingerprints have also been taken and submitted for examination. You can be assured that we are not criminals carrying under the shield of the law. Multiple levels of government have concurred that we have followed the law. In addition, we have spent a great deal of funds on training, equipment, and the permit process. We are not eager to jeopardize any of that through misconduct - we are well aware that if we misbehave we can lose every last penny of that investment, as well as our very freedom.
12) We would NEVER use our weapons unless it is absolutely necessary in order to save an innocent life

[GeorgeT]

Originally Posted by buggyone

VillageGolfer, no where in my posts have I suggested that there should be laws against handgun ownership nor laws against carrying handguns with a proper permit.

I have stated only that it is ridiculous to carry a handgun in The Villages. I did state that I will be observant for illegal display of a gun in public but not accidental display.

I did ask if any of the gun carriers would use them against a thief they saw taking golf clubs from their cart and got no reply on that question.

I got no reply from the poster who claimed that Vermont was as safe as The Villages and that I would like to see comparable FBI violent crime statistics to back up his claim.

I did say that the only violent crime in the past 2 years I know of involved someone with a permit to carry a weapon...and an assault with deadly weapon charge against another person who flashed his gun for a parking space...and he also had a permit to carry. So much for the fallacy of all the permit carriers being good guys.

Anything else I can answer for you?

buggy, I decided not to respond to your request for me to back up this claim because it's irrelevant to this discussion. If it makes you feel better then I coincide. All I'll say is I lived in VT for the past 27 years and just about everybody owns a firearm and the bad guys know it, that is what keeps the crime rate low in the entire state. Why don't you stop with the tunnel vision and look at the big picture. Like another poster said, a firearm is nothing but a tool. If some one wants to do you harm there are many tools that will do the job. Look at some motorcycle gangs, they carry ball peen hammers and sharpened screw drivers because they are "legal" and don't require permits. If our second amendment is screwed with then only the bad guys will have firearms. In the United Kingdom, the majority of police officers do not carry firearms. How do you think that would fly over here?

Also if a person with a permit shoots someone in self defense here in the USA they are still in for the legal ride of their life at the cost of about 75K for their defense so you can bet they will think twice before pulling the trigger or at least should. I'll also say that not everyone who owns a firearm is responsible enough to give their firearm the respect it deserves but that also holds true for people who drive a car.

[Maxman]

One of the reasons that we are moving from Maryland to Florida is the acceptance of the principles written in the 2nd amendment. Here in the Baltimore metro area violent crime with guns is rampant, but we have some of the strictest gun control laws in the United States.

I don't know if I will get a CCP, but I am secure in that the person, who means me harm, does not know weather I am carrying or not. That is an effective deterrent I can live with.

[CMANN]

64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday

[Figmo Bohica]

To the gentleman who carrys his pistol in an ankle holster. That is the worst place to carry a firearm. Have you every tried to draw it in a hurry? There is no way to get your firearm out in an emergency without bending over, pulling your pants leg up and getting back up to a standing position. If you don't believe me, find a place that does force on force training and try to out draw anyone who carrys it in a holster or pocket. You will never win. But if you feel safe carrying that way it is your choice, but you really need to think about where your are carrying your protection.

An example: You open your door, you are faced with someone who pulls a knife and pushing their way into your home. Now what you have to do, is bend over, lift your pants leg and then try to get your gun out while they are stabbing or beating you. Ain't never gonna happen. An ankle holster is only a good place to carry a back up gun (BUG) when you can open carry.

I want to address some thought to the ladies who might be reading this thread. I encourage you to get your CCW. Not that you have to own a gun or even carry one. Criminals are not the sharpest knifes in the drawer, but they are also not stupid. They look at numbers and if the number of permits to ladies for CCW in Florida is high and the permits in another state are low, where do you think that they will go to commit their crimes against women. My wife will be getting her Florida permit shortly and she never carries. She likes to shoot, knows how to shoot and would protect herself in our home, but she does not feel she needs to carry in public, she has me. LOL

I am also willing to give a class to any group here in the Villages about Protection In The Home that does not include owning or using a firearm. There are lots of things that you can do, but might not have thought of to protect yourself in your home. I will also give the same class for those that own firearms if desired. I will offer my time and expertise for free. Just contact me, I would like to have at least 15 to 20 if not more for these classes.

[faithfulfrank]

Jack88,

Excellent post.

[Posh 08]

Originally Posted by Figmo Bohica

To the gentleman who carrys his pistol in an ankle holster. That is the worst place to carry a firearm. Have you every tried to draw it in a hurry? There is no way to get your firearm out in an emergency without bending over, pulling your pants leg up and getting back up to a standing position. If you don't believe me, find a place that does force on force training and try to out draw anyone who carrys it in a holster or pocket. You will never win. But if you feel safe carrying that way it is your choice, but you really need to think about where your are carrying your protection.

An example: You open your door, you are faced with someone who pulls a knife and pushing their way into your home. Now what you have to do, is bend over, lift your pants leg and then try to get your gun out while they are stabbing or beating you. Ain't never gonna happen. An ankle holster is only a good place to carry a back up gun (BUG) when you can open carry.

I want to address some thought to the ladies who might be reading this thread. I encourage you to get your CCW. Not that you have to own a gun or even carry one. Criminals are not the sharpest knifes in the drawer, but they are also not stupid. They look at numbers and if the number of permits to ladies for CCW in Florida is high and the permits in another state are low, where do you think that they will go to commit their crimes against women. My wife will be getting her Florida permit shortly and she never carries. She likes to shoot, knows how to shoot and would protect herself in our home, but she does not feel she needs to carry in public, she has me. LOL

I am also willing to give a class to any group here in the Villages about Protection In The Home that does not include owning or using a firearm. There are lots of things that you can do, but might not have thought of to protect yourself in your home. I will also give the same class for those that own firearms if desired. I will offer my time and expertise for free. Just contact me, I would like to have at least 15 to 20 if not more for these classes.

I'm in, if I'm there.

[Jack88]

Originally Posted by Figmo Bohica

To the gentleman who carrys his pistol in an ankle holster. That is the worst place to carry a firearm. Have you every tried to draw it in a hurry? There is no way to get your firearm out in an emergency without bending over, pulling your pants leg up and getting back up to a standing position. If you don't believe me, find a place that does force on force training and try to out draw anyone who carrys it in a holster or pocket. You will never win. But if you feel safe carrying that way it is your choice, but you really need to think about where your are carrying your protection.

An example: You open your door, you are faced with someone who pulls a knife and pushing their way into your home. Now what you have to do, is bend over, lift your pants leg and then try to get your gun out while they are stabbing or beating you. Ain't never gonna happen. An ankle holster is only a good place to carry a back up gun (BUG) when you can open carry.

I want to address some thought to the ladies who might be reading this thread. I encourage you to get your CCW. Not that you have to own a gun or even carry one. Criminals are not the sharpest knifes in the drawer, but they are also not stupid. They look at numbers and if the number of permits to ladies for CCW in Florida is high and the permits in another state are low, where do you think that they will go to commit their crimes against women. My wife will be getting her Florida permit shortly and she never carries. She likes to shoot, knows how to shoot and would protect herself in our home, but she does not feel she needs to carry in public, she has me. LOL

I am also willing to give a class to any group here in the Villages about Protection In The Home that does not include owning or using a firearm. There are lots of things that you can do, but might not have thought of to protect yourself in your home. I will also give the same class for those that own firearms if desired. I will offer my time and expertise for free. Just contact me, I would like to have at least 15 to 20 if not more for these classes.

Thanks Figmo, I appreciate your concern. As I mentioned earlier I have installed a storm/screen door which is locked morning, day and night just for that reason. It gives me a few seconds to slam the front door shut or at the very least reach for my weapon if the BG tries to break down the door while I am standing there. Chances are if the BG sees the outer door is locked he will move on. I also have an XD Springfield .45 at home which I do not carry. I like the comfort of the ankle carry and also the deep concealment. No chance of printing. I do however practice holstering and re-holstering which is just as important.
Question: Would any of these naysayers answer their doorbell at 11:00pm without the benefit of a barrier between them and the unknown visitor?

PS: Thank you Faithful Frank!

[Figmo Bohica]

Originally Posted by Jack88

Question: Would any of these naysayers answer their doorbell at 11:00pm without the benefit of a barrier between them and the unknown visitor?

PS: Thank you Faithful Frank!

I would not be willing to wager money on that bet. As I think there would be a few that would without thinking twice about it.

[Posh 08]

Originally Posted by Jack88

Thanks Figmo, I appreciate your concern. As I mentioned earlier I have installed a storm/screen door which is locked morning, day and night just for that reason. It gives me a few seconds to slam the front door shut or at the very least reach for my weapon if the BG tries to break down the door while I am standing there. Chances are if the BG sees the outer door is locked he will move on. I also have an XD Springfield .45 at home which I do not carry. I like the comfort of the ankle carry and also the deep concealment. No chance of printing. I do however practice holstering and re-holstering which is just as important.
Question: Would any of these naysayers answer their doorbell at 11:00pm without the benefit of a barrier between them and the unknown visitor?

PS: Thank you Faithful Frank!

I'd never answer the door at that hour. I never open my door to a stranger, just ask them what want.