[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by shankerman

20 mph seems fine if you're an old lady, However, if you're stuck behind someone in a smelly gas cart driving 20 mph, it's pure agony.

What do you mean, "if you're an old lady"? Is there any other kind of lady in The Villages? However, whether it's an old man or old lady, you can avoid the smell by keeping your distance.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Nah, you changed your answer when it was pointed out that the OP was about golf cart paths, not multi-modal as you had erroneously stated.

However, let's find an area of agreement. I agree that virtually everyone calls the multi-modal paths "golf cart paths." That is what has added much confusion to this discussion. Language can be slippery, particularly since most people are imprecise in what they say. Apparently in your view the precise are "anal."

The fact remains that no matter where you are, if you have modified your golf cart so it can exceed 20 mph and are caught driving over 20 mph you can be cited.

On the other hand, for 2 mph over 20 seems to be an unlikely charge.

Hi Carl: I had two posts here. The first made the assumption that the OP was referring to multi-modal paths since it would unlikely that a cop would patrol a golf course cart path. so I didn't change anything only elaborated more given the continued dialogue with members

Secondly if it is an LSV or a cart modified to travel 25mph (the usual modification) and it travels in excess of the suggested speed limit on multi-modal paths then it isn't an issue unless or until there is an accident. You can bet the police will investigate if there is injury and you can bet they will issue citations accordingly. Keep in mind that carts are pre-set to 19.6 mph unless someone desire a modification and hence the reference to 20mph on multi-modal paths.

Third the police have in the past issued golf cart owners citation, while driving on multi-modal paths, for driving an unauthorized vehicle, that is a vehicle which can exceed 19.6mph but which is not licensed.

It can get confusing with all the noise generated by us all.

Personal Best Regards:

[downeaster]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Then pass the cart that is doing 20 mph. If you do it on a public roadway, you can get cited by the police if they are around and you will pay a hefty fine. If you pass someone on the multi-modal trail at a speed higher than 20 mph, chances are that you have no problem - unless you do it unsafely and cause an accident. If you pass unsafely and cause an accident while going faster than 20 mph, you will have a huge problem. You will most likely be sued and your insurance company will not pay off since your cart was modified to go faster than 20 mph. You very likely will lose everything you have worked your whole life to achieve - but that is your choice, isn't it?

Buggyone is absolutely correct.

I might add, if you are involved in an accident regardless of whose fault, the first thing an adjuster is going to look for is signs of modification. Keep in mind the definition of a golf cart is:
"(22) “Golf cart” means a motor vehicle that is designed and manufactured for operation on a golf course for sporting or recreational purposes and that is not capable of exceeding speeds of 20 miles per hour."
The insurance company thought they were insuring a golf cart, not an unregistered vehicle. There is a very important clause in all insurance policies protecting the insurer in these situations.

Calling it a golf cart doesn't make it a golf cart and insurance companies are not in the habit of paying claims they don't have to pay.

[kincaiddb@embarqmail.com]

Originally Posted by DonH57

I don't understand the belief on this site that the multi modal paths are private property not subject to LE jurisdiction. Most run along the roadways. I personally would not trust what I read here as fact. I would ask the authorities. I'm no goody two shoes but wouldn't trust what someone states here. Just saying.

Multi model paths DO NOT run on the county roads or streets. You can be cited for ceretain offences on the MMP, but speeding isn't one of them. Just this morning the Sheriffs Dept was running a speed trap for golf carts on Baily Trail. Sitting at the pump station by Allamanda Golf Course. They were pulling carts over one after the other including me. I was on the street and wasn't breaking the speed limit. The officer said BOY I got you big time. Imagine his surpise when I asked him if he wanted to see my Lic. and reg.. Oh, do you have a Low Speed Veh? Yep, then go on. Didn't even check to see if I was ins. or notheing. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Hi Carl: I had two posts here. The first made the assumption that the OP was referring to multi-modal paths since it would unlikely that a cop would patrol a golf course cart path. so I didn't change anything only elaborated more given the continued dialogue with members

Secondly if it is an LSV or a cart modified to travel 25mph (the usual modification) and it travels in excess of the suggested speed limit on multi-modal paths then it isn't an issue unless or until there is an accident. You can bet the police will investigate if there is injury and you can bet they will issue citations accordingly. Keep in mind that carts are pre-set to 19.6 mph unless someone desire a modification and hence the reference to 20mph on multi-modal paths.

Third the police have in the past issued golf cart owners citation, while driving on multi-modal paths, for driving an unauthorized vehicle, that is a vehicle which can exceed 19.6mph but which is not licensed.

It can get confusing with all the noise generated by us all.

Personal Best Regards:

Reviewing the entire thread it seems to me that there are a lot more opinions than there are facts. It's a shame that more of the opinions don't cite any authority for what they think.

It reminds me of:

1. When Charlie Brown and Lucy were arguing and Charlie Brown asks, "Where do you get your facts?" and Lucy replies, "I just make them up."

2. "First get the facts, then distort them at your leisure." --- Mark Twain

3. "You are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts." --- Daniel Patrick Monihan

It's been interesting.

[er9027]

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

What’s wrong with this picture? We have 35 posts based on the OP which makes reference to the speed limit of golf carts being 20 mph, so “can’t we go 22 and not be subject to ticketing?”

Simply AND BOLDLY put, THE SPEED LIMIT FOR A GOLF CART IS 20 MPH. Anything beyond this is moot. Should there be any discussion from that point on?

This reminds me of my writing about the person complaining about getting a ticket in a school zone with the lights flashing because of being from out-of-state, without an iota of thought that it was that individual who chose to fly through the school zone.

Or the people who have said that Buena Vista Blvd “looks like” it was designed for speeds higher than 35 mph and so choose to drive faster. When ticketed, I supposed we’ll hear that “it’s the road’s fault!”

What part of “the speed limit for a golf cart is 20 mph” is incomprehensible?

Its as SIMPLE as that....Don't drive faster. If you want to go faster,,get in your car. If I see someone driving 30mph on a cart path...I'm heading for the side so I don't get run over.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by kincaiddb@embarqmail.com

Multi model paths DO NOT run on the county roads or streets. You can be cited for ceretain offences on the MMP, but speeding isn't one of them. Just this morning the Sheriffs Dept was running a speed trap for golf carts on Baily Trail. Sitting at the pump station by Allamanda Golf Course. They were pulling carts over one after the other including me. I was on the street and wasn't breaking the speed limit. The officer said BOY I got you big time. Imagine his surpise when I asked him if he wanted to see my Lic. and reg.. Oh, do you have a Low Speed Veh? Yep, then go on. Didn't even check to see if I was ins. or notheing. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

Your assertions make me wonder about the legal status of the "Diamond Lanes" that are on the streets. If, as you say, they are not MMPs then the police have full enforcement powers over them.

I don't think the separate lanes are always marked as diamond lanes within all of the villages.

I haven't seen a reference to diamond lanes in the official sources I've been researching, most notably the memo of District Counsel Valeria Fuchs regarding Multi-Modal Paths.

Of course there are signs that establish the speed limit in The Villages to 20 mph unless the street is otherwise marked. This probably covers about all of the residential streets within the individual villages.

However, on Morse the diamond lane is clearly marked to be used by carts and bicycles and has a posted speed limit of 20 mph while the limit for other traffic is higher. I'm guessing you are saying the police have full enforcement powers there. I'm also wondering if the 20 mph posting has the force of law by appearing in a legal statute or is simply a posting made by The Villages government, which has no enforcement power.

It's all just curiosity anyway. My golf cart has not been modified to exceed 20 mph.

I just enjoy the conversation.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

What’s wrong with this picture? We have 35 posts based on the OP which makes reference to the speed limit of golf carts being 20 mph, so “can’t we go 22 and not be subject to ticketing?”

Simply AND BOLDLY put, THE SPEED LIMIT FOR A GOLF CART IS 20 MPH. Anything beyond this is moot. Should there be any discussion from that point on?

This reminds me of my writing about the person complaining about getting a ticket in a school zone with the lights flashing because of being from out-of-state, without an iota of thought that it was that individual who chose to fly through the school zone.

Or the people who have said that Buena Vista Blvd “looks like” it was designed for speeds higher than 35 mph and so choose to drive faster. When ticketed, I supposed we’ll hear that “it’s the road’s fault!”

What part of “the speed limit for a golf cart is 20 mph” is incomprehensible?

Sorry, but where do you see anything simply and boldly put that the speed limit for golf carts is 20MPH.

First of all there are no speed limits for vehicles. There are speed limits for road. What the law says is that if a golf cart is capable of going 20mph or faster, they must have all of the same safety equipment as an automobile and must be registered and insured. There is nothing in that statement that says anything about speed limits on multi modal paths.
As far as I know LSVs capable of going up to 25 mph can use the multi modal paths. There are also scooters that have and engine of 49 CCs an smaller that can be registered for the street and are also allowed on the paths.
I have seen nothing that stipulates a speed limit on any of the multi modal paths.

[NECHFalcon68]

Here's a recent relevant thread...
speed limit enforcement

[deltaguy]

Originally Posted by rhood

That's a fact Jack ! ! ! Lots of misinformation here, but not this.

Correct!

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Sorry, but where do you see anything simply and boldly put that the speed limit for golf carts is 20MPH.

First of all there are no speed limits for vehicles. There are speed limits for road. What the law says is that if a golf cart is capable of going 20mph or faster, they must have all of the same safety equipment as an automobile and must be registered and insured. There is nothing in that statement that says anything about speed limits on multi modal paths.
As far as I know LSVs capable of going up to 25 mph can use the multi modal paths. There are also scooters that have and engine of 49 CCs an smaller that can be registered for the street and are also allowed on the paths.
I have seen nothing that stipulates a speed limit on any of the multi modal paths.

Technically there are no speed limits for vehicles. As a practical matter there is a speed limit for golf carts. Florida Statute defines a golf cart as not capable of exceeding 20 mph. If you modify one to go faster it no longer is regarded as a golf cart.

IF you do the other things you list you MAY register it as a LSV. If you don't do those things you have an illegal motor vehicle and can be charged accordingly.

You are correct that LSVs are permitted to use the MMPs although they are registered motor vehicles. The 2010 legal opinion of the District Counsel pointed out that at the time the State and County Development Orders for retirement developments were written there was no statutory definition of LSVs. Accordingly, the District Counsel said that for the purpose of using the MMPs and the golf cart paths on the golf courses LSVs should be accorded the privileges of golf carts.

I'm interested in your statement that says that there are also scooters that have an engine of 49 CCs and smaller that can be registered for the street and are also allowed on the paths. Do you know where that is written down? It appears to contradict the District Counsel memo that says that motorcycles and mopeds are excluded from the MMPs. I find no reference to scooters.

The County police treat Segweys as bicycles and the District Counsel says that they are permitted on the MMPs. I've yet to see one out there.

Regarding speed limits being posted on MMPs, I do believe there is one. It is on the southbound path on Morse on the bridge to Lake Sumter Landing. There is a posted speed limit of 10 mph, that everyone seems to ignore.

The interesting discussion continues.................

[rubicon]

Carl: You are spot on. I believe the police issue a citation when a golf cart is modified to go above 20mph as an unauthorized vehicle because it is not licensed or has insurance.

I also believe I am correct when saying that the police can moderate your speed while traveling in a diamond lane or on a street with such designation.

What I do not agree with is that an LSV should be allowed o multi-modal paths. However it does bode well for the argument that there is a speed limit on multi-modal paths. Hence if an LSV is exceeding 20mph then the driver is in violation.

I have seen scooters on the multi-modal paths.

I also have seen a segway

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Carl: You are spot on. I believe the police issue a citation when a golf cart is modified to go above 20mph as an unauthorized vehicle because it is not licensed or has insurance.

I also believe I am correct when saying that the police can moderate your speed while traveling in a diamond lane or on a street with such designation.

What I do not agree with is that an LSV should be allowed o multi-modal paths. However it does bode well for the argument that there is a speed limit on multi-modal paths. Hence if an LSV is exceeding 20mph then the driver is in violation.

I have seen scooters on the multi-modal paths.

I also have seen a segway

On a couple of occasions I've seen the powered wheelchairs (similar to Hoverounds) on the MMPs. Usually over near Freedom Pointe.

This makes me think that the Travelscoot might be legal on the MMPs. I have met one man in The Villages who had one. Take a look at Gallery - Best Mobility Scooters - The TravelScoot is the lightest and best mobility scooter or electric wheelchair in the world! It folds and unfolds as quick and easy as an umbrella, runs on Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) batteries and has legions of devoted

I'm surprised that I haven't seen more three wheel bicycles here. Due to my spine surgery I've (reluctantly) given up on the idea that I would ever ride a two wheel bike again. I've also taken my last horseback ride. We've all heard it: growing old is not for sissies.

[DonH57]

The Travel Scoot is nice. My wife has one. Easy to transport and to travel with.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I can't say that I've ever seen it written down, but I've seen some scooters with a sign on the back that says "Path Legal" and I've heard it discussed, I believe, on this forum.