[Rockyrd]

Originally Posted by Aw Man

Both terms can be used to refer to others in a derogatory manner. If that's the intended use of either term, I'm against using them.

I was born and raised in Ohio. Over my adult years in Illinois, my friends often referred to me as the "Ohioan". I was always proud when they did so.
I was taken aback at my retirement party when all my friends told me the many, many derogatory definitions of the term "Ohioan" that is in common use in Illinois (and probably Michigan).

I think you are referring to CONTEXT, which is so very very important when quoting someone. I have gotten lots of grief when questioning what someone said by asking...."put that in context" and then feeling wrath about over thinking or some such thing.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Rockyrd

1. Another of the 1984 plot lines was "alternate facts", "emotional nationalism", which we are subject to today in our country.

2. Orwell wrote not of any party and blamed both sides rightfully so for the rise of this type of rhetoric as he lived through the rise of governments based on these things.

3. That and a term I like that he feared..."disbelieve in the existence of objective truth" always ring in my ears, almost on a daily basis.

4. The "listening" is not new and I am afraid we are going to have to get used to it, but I fear with great dread the day when we lose touch with truth.....when we are faced with preaching of "alternate facts"

You are very observant. The following are my views. (I numbered your paragraphs for ease in referencing them with my responses.)

1. I view "alternate facts" as political maneuvering, commonly referred to in the past as "spinning." I see "emotional nationalism" in a bit different light. It is my experience that members of the military, military veterans, and even police officers and police veterans, are generally fiercely patriotic and nationalistic.

2. I agree, but would point out that Orwell was an Englishman, living in England, and the statement would not extend to USA political parties. As you reference, he certainly observed the rise of Fascism and Communism in certain foreign countries. Further, he did name a political philosophy, Socialism, as the basis of tyranny in Oceania.

3. From a lifetime of interviewing eyewitnesses to crimes, and giving expert testimony in court, I can understand how belief in "objective truth" can get fuzzy. Different people can see the same act and perceive what they saw differently. They tend to interpret the action in the context of their life experience. "Spin," mentioned above, can also be a factor. But, I continue to believe in Objective Truth.

4. You are correct that we will have to get used to being watched, by the government and others. In fact anyone who has downloaded "applications" on a cell phone has unthinkingly agreed to all kinds of personal surveillance, in all likelihood including their location, their e-mail exchanges, the photos they have taken, and the identity of the web sites they have visited on their web browser. All this was voluntary.

[redwitch]

Boy, did this thread go on a tangent I never expected. I've read and loved both 1984 and Brave New World. I've thought for a long time that we're closer to 1984 than I care to think about. I don't like the idea of living in a world where every phone conversation I make is recorded or every word I write on a computer is there forever and never truly private. I hate how facts today are altered to prove a mindset rather than letting facts speak for themselves. I hate the biased reporting. I honestly just want the news. If I want an opinion of the news, I can find enough commentators to interpret the news given, but I want ALL of the news, not just the portion that makes that reporter and editor happy. And so on and so forth.

I was simply trying to make the point that asking someone to not use a phrase or word that is hurtful to that person and respecting that request is a simple act of kindness and courtesy. It has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has nothing to do with trying to stifle one 's right to free speech. It has everything to do with respecting the feelings of another human.

[Rockyrd]

Originally Posted by redwitch

Boy, did this thread go on a tangent I never expected. I've read and loved both 1984 and Brave New World. I've thought for a long time that we're closer to 1984 than I care to think about. I don't like the idea of living in a world where every phone conversation I make is recorded or every word I write on a computer is there forever and never truly private. I hate how facts today are altered to prove a mindset rather than letting facts speak for themselves. I hate the biased reporting. I honestly just want the news. If I want an opinion of the news, I can find enough commentators to interpret the news given, but I want ALL of the news, not just the portion that makes that reporter and editor happy. And so on and so forth.

I was simply trying to make the point that asking someone to not use a phrase or word that is hurtful to that person and respecting that request is a simple act of kindness and courtesy. It has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has nothing to do with trying to stifle one 's right to free speech. It has everything to do with respecting the feelings of another human.

I thought your OP was well thought out, presented well, and on target. The 1984 was an add on and it was free....so .....

But, I still think context is important, and frankly your point is well taken......try not to hurt anyone, be aware of who you are speaking with, never lie, relax and it all works out.

Our only disagreement is on the news. I do not think it is possible even to change or alter the news.....it is the news. The presentation will take you to places you may not want to go to, so, for me, READING is the answer, and insure the source is legit on both sides. I just want to be armed with the basic facts.

[redwitch]

Originally Posted by Rockyrd

Our only disagreement is on the news. I do not think it is possible even to change or alter the news.....it is the news. The presentation will take you to places you may not want to go to, so, for me, READING is the answer, and insure the source is legit on both sides. I just want to be armed with the basic facts.

My issue with news is that sometimes (frequently?) things are left out or are not quite in context. Examples: Trump fired several attorneys shortly after taking office. A common practice done by most Presidents was rarely mentioned. A PO shot an unarmed man. No mention made of the fact that man was high on PCP and beating the police officer. And so on and so forth. Give me all of the facts known. Don't interpret them for me. Don't give me your editorial comments (either verbally, facially or via body language). When I want opinions, I'll look for them but please let me have the facts, just the facts from news if you're claiming to report the news.

[Rockyrd]

Originally Posted by redwitch

My issue with news is that sometimes (frequently?) things are left out or are not quite in context. Examples: Trump fired several attorneys shortly after taking office. A common practice done by most Presidents was rarely mentioned. A PO shot an unarmed man. No mention made of the fact that man was high on PCP and beating the police officer. And so on and so forth. Give me all of the facts known. Don't interpret them for me. Don't give me your editorial comments (either verbally, facially or via body language). When I want opinions, I'll look for them but please let me have the facts, just the facts from news if you're claiming to report the news.

I Agree, but on the firings you missed some facts there....but yes that does happen and that is why...well for example...I read a lot, probably obsessively, and have developed cycles or who to read and when. I pretty much know who is conservative and who is liberal, who wants to make it like the National Enquirer, etc. I actually read one liberal and then one conservative...difference in facts is sometimes no big deal but sometimes it is to me, so will continue and investigate. I admit it makes me sound a bit "off the wall" but politics and government have either been my occupation or avocation for man years and I love it.

By the way, despite what they say "down below" in political, news media does not lie...most they do package it for whatever audience they are searching. So tired of hearing how the media lies...they do not...if they did, they would face terrible consequences. I think our journalists are so very very important in our democracy.

Again, subject changed....did I tell you that your OP was spot on ?

[redwitch]

LOL rocky. You did, thanks.

And I agree, the media doesn't lie, just skews things toward their target audience. I'm one of those who doesn't like that. And, like you, I use several sources. The AP website is pretty neutral, Al Jazeera is good for a lot of international stuff but you have to be careful and make sure you're not reading an opinion piece, Reuters seems to vary by subject, Bloomberg okay, huffPost for the liberal side, BriteBart when I have the urge to .

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by redwitch

LOL rocky. You did, thanks.

And I agree, the media doesn't lie, just skews things toward their target audience. I'm one of those who doesn't like that. And, like you, I use several sources. The AP website is pretty neutral, Al Jazeera is good for a lot of international stuff but you have to be careful and make sure you're not reading an opinion piece, Reuters seems to vary by subject, Bloomberg okay, huffPost for the liberal side, BriteBart when I have the urge to .

My parents often have FOX on TV or One American News. I usually look at CNN or one of the major networks usually CBS in my bedroom.

If there is a story I really want to see what the facts are though I go to the local news stations wherever that incident happened before the major news services put their spin on the facts by omitting some, highlighting others, etc. So, if there is an incident in Tulsa, OK that makes the national news; I will check the local affiliates of CBS, NBC, ABC, and FOX to see what really happened there in Tulsa. The Tulsa newspapers would be even better if I can get access to them. So many newspapers now seem to require subscriptions on line to few more than a set number of articles.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Rockyrd

...So tired of hearing how the media lies...they do not...

I tend to...for the most part...agree. But the bias is often so extreme from sources that are just supposed to report the facts...that it's almost as bad as lying. It's certainly not unbiased news reporting...as journalism should be.

[manaboutown]

The MSM focuses on expressing its biased opinions, frequently failing to report the facts accurately and completely. It twists and distorts the news in order to advance its political agenda. At least in Russia the people realize all they are getting from their media is propaganda.

[xNYer]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

The MSM focuses on expressing its biased opinions, frequently failing to report the facts accurately and completely. It twists and distorts the news in order to advance its political agenda. At least in Russia the people realize all they are getting from their media is propaganda.

Is the most watched corporate news station, Fox, the mainstream media? Or is the mainstream media news that you find biased because you do not like what it reports?

[Rockyrd]

Originally Posted by xNYer

Is the most watched corporate news station, Fox, the mainstream media? Or is the mainstream media news that you find biased because you do not like what it reports?

Good point.

I have yet, despite very loud claims, ever to have anyone show me how the MSM neglects to report the news. Fake news as it is called is simply news you do not want to hear.

[EnglishJW]

Since books have found their way into this discussion, I would like to suggest a set of books - no fiction involved: The Story of Civilization by Will & Ariel Durant ( The Story of Civilization (11 Volume Set) by Will Durant — Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists). The detailed descriptions concerning the rise and fall of the world's great civilizations is informative. There are many parallels with our own situation.

[Rockyrd]

This thread has sort of been hijacked !!!

I thought a discussion of Political correctness and news was on target.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Rockyrd

This thread has sort of been hijacked !!!

I thought a discussion of Political correctness and news was on target.

In a lot of ways, this thread is quite analogous...to what's happening in the real world.

As soon as something is shown to be embarrassing or not adhering to ones own beliefs, a diversion and obfuscation...is quickly attempted.

"Oh look...a shiny thing."