[NJblue]

Originally Posted by redwitch

We all know this kid was not perfect but that doesn't justify his death -- his actions on that evening were not objectionable and were perfectly legal.

Hold on there Red. How do you know that his actions were perfectly legal through the course of the night? He may have been doing nothing illegal up until the point of confrontation, but after that there are two very different accounts about what happened and one of those accounts has Martin doing things very illegal. Some here seem to think that if Martin is afraid of Zimmerman that he has a right to attack him. What utter nonsense.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by buggyone

It is comical to me to see comments from this thread from posters who claim "We now know it was NOT a "white" man at all" that killed Trayvon Martin.

I would really like to see how Zimmerman described himself in terms of race in the years before this killing. I may lose the bet but I would bet an ice-cold Yeungling (at Cody's) that Zimmerman classified himself as "White" or "Caucasian" in times before he killed Martin. Any takers?

I am only responding to this post because I am quoted within, but it is being presented completely and totally out of any context.

My post from where this quote was lifted spoke only to the seeds of the media frenzy and reporting...it did not even try, as many do, to address facts being presented at this trial or guilt or innocence.

The quote lifted from my post was an accurate representation of the immediate press coverage, and what piqued the interest of the various civil right activists and various media outlets.

[redwitch]

Originally Posted by NJblue

Hold on there Red. How do you know that his actions were perfectly legal through the course of the night? He may have been doing nothing illegal up until the point of confrontation, but after that there are two very different accounts about what happened and one of those accounts has Martin doing things very illegal. Some here seem to think that if Martin is afraid of Zimmerman that he has a right to attack him. What utter nonsense.

Sorry, should have clarified -- Martin was doing nothing illegal while Zimmerman was following him. I don't know if his actions after confronting Zimmerman were legal or not. (1) I really don't know Florida criminal law well enough to comment and (2) only Zimmerman knows who connected first -- was Martin defending himself or did he just attack (if you believe Janelle [and I do], Martin did not begin by physically attacking, he confronted Zimmerman and asked why he was following him)?

I don't think Martin had the right to attack and don't defend those actions, but I do understand him doing so. I think most 17 year old males would have behaved pretty much as he did in these circumstances.

[perrjojo]

Just a thought...if Martin was afraid because someone was following him, why did he not end the call with Janelle and call 911? There are things Zimmerman could have done differently but the there are also things Martin could have done to insure his safety.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by perrjojo

Just a thought...if Martin was afraid because someone was following him, why did he not end the call with Janelle and call 911? There are things Zimmerman could have done differently but the there are also things Martin could have done to insure his safety.

Better yet, why didn't he just continue on to the safety of his father's home. If he was so afraid of Zimmerman, why would he turn around and follow him back to his car?

[MikeV]

I have read all the posts here and I offer my opinion. It makes no difference what GZ did prior to the altercation between him and TM. Even if he was the aggressor and even if he did not follow the instructions from the 911 operator it makes no difference. Once the fight started a person has every right to take lethal action against someone who is trying to do great bodily harm to them or if they feel their life is in danger. Race is not a factor in this case much to the disappointment of some. Even TM parents stated through their attorney they don't want this trial to be about race. GZ most likely would have acted in the same way if the person was green.

[LynnDeb]

When GZ first called 911, GZ was told not to follow TM.....I still feel GZ provoked TM

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by MikeV

I have read all the posts here and I offer my opinion. It makes no difference what GZ did prior to the altercation between him and TM. Even if he was the aggressor and even if he did not follow the instructions from the 911 operator it makes no difference. Once the fight started a person has every right to take lethal action against someone who is trying to do great bodily harm to them or if they feel their life is in danger. Race is not a factor in this case much to the disappointment of some. Even TM parents stated through their attorney they don't want this trial to be about race. GZ most likely would have acted in the same way if the person was green.

He had that right IF that was the case. And wemay never know the truth.
There are so many differences in statements of the witnesses as to what happened, who was on top in the fight, and so on. It's an easy out for Zimmerman to say his life was in danger, but it will be up to the court to sort thru the evidence to determine if his claim is even credible. On the surface u have to wonder why he would feel threatened by a teenaged kid when Zimmerman chased the kid down with a loaded gun.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by mickey100

He had that right IF that was the case. And wemay never know the truth.
There are so many differences in statements of the witnesses as to what happened, who was on top in the fight, and so on. It's an easy out for Zimmerman to say his life was in danger, but it will be up to the court to sort thru the evidence to determine if his claim is even credible. On the surface u have to wonder why he would feel threatened by a teenaged kid when Zimmerman chased the kid down with a loaded gun.

I have not watched any of this trial nor read much, but I must ask.....

Is it true that "Zimmerman chased the kid down with a loaded gun"

Knew he HAD a gun, but your presentation puts an entirely different spin on everything. Please clarify !!!!

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by Bucco

I have not watched any of this trial nor read much, but I must ask.....

Is it true that "Zimmerman chased the kid down with a loaded gun"

Knew he HAD a gun, but your presentation puts an entirely different spin on everything. Please clarify !!!!

This is an example of the dangers of forming an opinion on the case without all the details as presented by both sides of the story. I too knew very little about this case other than what I heard about it from MSNBC back when it happened. Based on this view, I too had the perception that Zimmerman was following Martin around on foot and finally confronted him. Based on this, and the pictures that were shown of a cute "boy", I thought Zimmerman must be some sort of monster.

Now, however, we are beginning to hear the other side of the story. Ironically, from what I am hearing from the prosection (of all things), I have serious reservations about Zimmerman's guilt. I had assumed him to be at least very stupid for following Martin around. Now we hear his side of the story where he was in his car for most of the time (perfectly acceptable from my perspective for someone who has taken a leadership role in the security of the neighborhood). We also hear that, according to Zimmerman, it was Martin who physically confronted Zimmerman as he was going back to his car.

To characterize the events as Zimmerman "chasing the kid down with a loaded gun" it is clear that the person making such a statement is only interested in one side of the story.

I recall when I was on a jury for a felony trial. After hearing the prosecution's side of the story, I was ready to lock the defendant up and throw away the key. However, then we heard the defense perspective, and things got very murky. It took us 3 days of deliberation with initially some feeling that he was guilty, others innocent and others not sure. We finally concluded that there was too much doubt in our mind to send this guy to prison and we aquitted him.

What I find interesting is that as I watch this trial, I am only seeing the prosecution's story so far, and I am already feeling that Zimmerman is innocent. Unless he comes up with something big, if I were on the jury I would have a very guilty conscience if I sent Zimmerman to prison for the rest of his life - or for any time for that matter.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by LynnDeb

When GZ first called 911, GZ was told not to follow TM.....I still feel GZ provoked TM

Zimmerman was NOT told not to follow Martin. The source of this false perception now so prevalent among members of the public no doubt came from disinformation generated and spread by the mainstream media.

The 911 operator's response was something like "OK, we don't need you to do that." That is not an instruction. On its face it is not even an advisement or an admonishment. It sounds to me like an opinion, an opinion from someone not at the scene, that Zimmerman need not follow Martin. The statement does not instruct him not to do so.

Furthermore, what is the status of a 911 operator in Florida. Do 911 operators have the power of authority given to police officers? Must their instructions be followed by anyone under any circumstances, some circumstances or ever ????

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Monkei

American society. I guess in some states Zimmerman will have just been bashed to death since he couldn't carry a gun legally. But then again if he was up north he would have been smart enough to not follow and stay in his car to start with. In florida a skinny little man can be much bigger as long as he has his gun with him. Note to self. If I am ever in a situation where I am fighting for my life and shoot the person I need to play up the injuries and get to a hospital.

If Martin had stuck to assaulting (unarmed) bus drivers rather than sucker punching, grounding and pounding a man (legally) carrying a concealed pistol he might still be vertical.

[Patty55]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

If Martin had stuck to assaulting (unarmed) bus drivers rather than sucker punching, grounding and pounding a man (legally) carrying a concealed pistol he might still be vertical.

Yep, it's all fun and games till you jump the wrong Creepy Ass Cracker.

[dsned]

It is basic self defense, he was getting his head bashed in and pull his gun and shot his attacker. End of story. I am only hoping he doesn't get railroaded because of the color or his skin.

[buggyone]

Originally Posted by dsned

It is basic self defense, he was getting his head bashed in and pull his gun and shot his attacker. End of story. I am only hoping he doesn't get railroaded because of the color or his skin.

Oh, haven't you been reading these posts? It is now established by some posters that Zimmerman is NOT a white man.