The tolerance being displayed here is mindboggling.

There is alot of talk about the "good" Muslims. Are any of you aware that Islam teaches that deception and lies and false friendships are encouraged when dealing with infidels?

Katz,

In an earlier thread, you said, " I work with a physician whose name is William Davis. I also work with medical assistant whose name is Chantelle Robinson. I also work with another physician whose name is Todd Smith. Care to guess who is the Muslim, who is the AfricanAmerican, and who is the Caucasian? In the medical world where I have spent the last 30+ years, we know no race, color, ethnicity, religion. One is either there to heal or be healed and we are all humans both inside and out."

Does the "good" Muslim you work with practice deception, lies, and false friendships with you and the others in your medical facility?

Originally Posted by djplong

Richie: I'll certainly agree with you that *overseas* Islam may be the greatest threat to freedom. But the links I provided showed a *nationwide* poll of American Muslims disavowing violence - IN SOME CASES THEY WERE THE MOST ANTI-VIOLENCE OF *ANY* MAJOR RELIGION.

Now I'll ask you - and to be honest I think you might agree with me here - why do you think that Islam is such a threat overseas? In my opinion, it's something I noticed in the 1980s when Beirut was turning into rubble. I forget who it was who authored the article I was reading back then but the gist was as follows.

"Over there", there's nothing BUT religion. There's nothing to take people's minds off of it. There's no economic success. There's no hope for class mobility. It's as though things are so destitute elsewhere that people have "given up" on this life and figure there's nothing to live for except the next one. Radical clerics seize on this, just like cult leaders in this country prey on the lonely and disaffected.

In today's terms, it's why Europe, by and large, doesn't have a problem with religion *except from recent immigrants* who still seem to have the "old" mindset.

It would also be a good argument as to what REALLY solved the Irish "troubles". The "Celtic Tiger" boom years seemed to coincide with agreements being signed to settle the violence. Only when the economy tanked did some rumblings come up again (I was in Ireland on our honeymoon when they went through their teeth-gnashing over what the bank bailouts would be in 2010 and I was reading about this in their newspapers)

So, Richie, I think I can find the following common ground with you. For one, keep the f'ing radical clerics *OUT*. They can keep their "live for death" mantra back in the catboxes where they came from. Secondly, economic freedom can cure religious fundamentalism - it's harder (though not impossible) to recruit people when they have a hopeful outlook.

I understand what you're saying but that doesn't explain the 9/11 terrorists who lived along side us for an extended time and still felt it was their obligation to sacrifice their own lives in order to strike a blow for Islam.

It doesn't explain an Islamist and senior officer of our military committing the massacre of his fellow soldiers in the name of Islam after living alongside them and knowing their fellowship for many years.

There are many more examples of these people who live, or lived, among us and did not "lose their true faith".

You don't have to delve deep into the teachings of Islam, as you must do with Christianity, to find evidence of religious directives to smite those who refuse to submit to the tenants of the faith. Everyone who speaks honestly about Islam knows that the teaching is that the latter verses supersede and correct earlier verses. These later verses proscribe the conversion or death of all nonbelievers. Their most honored clerics shout these edicts from the highest platforms of their places of worship, and teach their children these lessons in their schools, or madrasah as they are called.

Still, we have those in the civilized world who don't believe they mean what they say, or that they can't possibly be speaking for the majority of their faith.

I know for those who believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ it is difficult to believe that a major religion would seriously be built on the premise of the literal destruction of all those who refuse it's call. I hope you're right that their is real dissension in this country that has a chance of changing the prevailing teaching in Islam. I guess we Christians can only pray for this.

My point is that I can find a Tim McVeigh just as easily as I can find a Mohammed Atta. *Examples* are easy to find and, let's face it, the news specializes in catering to our fears and sensationalizing things.

I certianly agree that there are those who act as moles. They're brainwashed and there's almost nothing (to my knowledge) that you can do to change that without direct intervention.

I don't have to delve deep into Christianity to find violence - the Old Testament is LOADED with it. Massacres of every man woman and child just because they're a different tribe? It's all there.

Christianity has co-existed with secular society for a while now. It's had time to 'grow up'. But that's THIS country. There were Christians bombing Christians in Ireland until just a few years ago. 15,000 were killed by Christians in Lebanon in one massacre where the Israelis stood by and watched.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that it is our economic success that "puts religion in it's place" - and that place is in the heart between a person and whatever God they worship.

Where do all these radicals come from? They come from places where they never hear the phrase "the street is being torn up for sewer construction" or something similar.

I *do* agree that moderate muslims need to get the word out MORE and certainly in a LOUDER way. It's easy for ME to find plenty of it with some Google-fu skills but Joe Sixpack needs to hear it as does everyone else.

Originally Posted by buggyone

Katz,

In an earlier thread, you said, " I work with a physician whose name is William Davis. I also work with medical assistant whose name is Chantelle Robinson. I also work with another physician whose name is Todd Smith. Care to guess who is the Muslim, who is the AfricanAmerican, and who is the Caucasian? In the medical world where I have spent the last 30+ years, we know no race, color, ethnicity, religion. One is either there to heal or be healed and we are all humans both inside and out."

Does the "good" Muslim you work with practice deception, lies, and false friendships with you and the others in your medical facility?

Personally I tend to hope and expect the best of people. Whether the "good" Muslim practices lies and deceptions and false friendships? I cannot answer that. Not sure that I truly want to know, nor do I know for sure how I would be able to tell...Who am I to judge another man's heart?
I have seen them heal those of other races and religion...However, this does not preclude them from practicing lies, deceptions and forming false friendships. I stand by the former and the later comments.

Originally Posted by djplong

My point is that I can find a Tim McVeigh just as easily as I can find a Mohammed Atta. *Examples* are easy to find and, let's face it, the news specializes in catering to our fears and sensationalizing things.

I certianly agree that there are those who act as moles. They're brainwashed and there's almost nothing (to my knowledge) that you can do to change that without direct intervention.

I don't have to delve deep into Christianity to find violence - the Old Testament is LOADED with it. Massacres of every man woman and child just because they're a different tribe? It's all there.

Christianity has co-existed with secular society for a while now. It's had time to 'grow up'. But that's THIS country. There were Christians bombing Christians in Ireland until just a few years ago. 15,000 were killed by Christians in Lebanon in one massacre where the Israelis stood by and watched.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that it is our economic success that "puts religion in it's place" - and that place is in the heart between a person and whatever God they worship.

Where do all these radicals come from? They come from places where they never hear the phrase "the street is being torn up for sewer construction" or something similar.

I *do* agree that moderate muslims need to get the word out MORE and certainly in a LOUDER way. It's easy for ME to find plenty of it with some Google-fu skills but Joe Sixpack needs to hear it as does everyone else.

All evidence of the vile acts of Islamists all over the world contradict your words. I'm sorry but it's a fact.

In all your posts you refuse to acknowledge that the Islamist call for the death of infidels is a primary tenet of their religion and their Iman's teachings IN THE PRESENT.

Nowhere in PRESENT DAY CHRISTIANITY can you say this is true. If you do say this you are outright misrepresenting Christianity, or in other words, lying. I'm not sure for what reason.

I have a few liberal links in my DNA, but not on this issue. The monetary debt we are leaving our children is not half as devastating as the Islamic threat if left un-attended to. I am stunned to see the posts in this thread that feel little or no danger from the increase in Muslims in the USA.

I agree with Villager II...I find little comfort in all the comparison over 100's of years what others did or did not do to justify the CURRENT, clear and present danger.

It is obvious why the "good ones" don't speak out against the radicals and the extremeists...most likely because internally they would be viewed as the "bad ones" and need to be dealt with for their western leanings.

Wait until their numbers approach the mix like they have in France with their open defiance of French law.

They vow to eliminate the USA as we know it....what other motivation do we Americans need to be cautious, prudent and defensive...instead of rationalizing/justifying?

btk

Well, let's just bring it to a simple question. What do you uber-conservatives plan to do with the Muslim population in the United States?

enforce the laws of the land!!! And not knuckle under, as we are for the illegal aliens from Mexico.

And of course the race card and profiling card will be played.

The only positive I see in the future regarding the mix in the USA is I won't be here for when it really goes to hell!!.

btk

While Americans argue on forums, Muslim women are stoned to death for adultery, hands are cut off for stealing, etc,etc under Sharia law in the Middle East. Are we really that blind to not know or care that such could take root and thrive in our country all in the name of religious freedom? Meanwhile, nativity scenes are denied airtime and Merry Christmas is become politically incorrect in exchange for Happy Holidays.
I am with you Billethkid-The only positive I see in the future regarding the mix in the USA is I won't be here for when it really goes to hell!!.

Even in the areas of the USA where there are large populations of Muslims, there is not the most remote possibility that stoning of women, cutting off hands, etc will ever be permitted as law. If those crimes did take place - even under the guise of Muslim law - state laws would take precedence and those parties that did the crime would be punished.

Where I came from in the Washington DC area, there were Hatians who wanted to raise goats in the city limits and then kill them on altars for religiious ceremonies. They tried to say the prohibition of this was a denial of religious freedom. City council struck it down and on appeal, it was struck down by a circuit court. This was for goat killing - people killing for religious freedom would not even be thought of to be tolerated.

Of course, Bill is right. Laws are to be obeyed by everyone and enforced equally.

Originally Posted by billethkid

enforce the laws of the land!!! And not knuckle under, as we are for the illegal aliens from Mexico.

And of course the race card and profiling card will be played.

The only positive I see in the future regarding the mix in the USA is I won't be here for when it really goes to hell!!.

btk

I woud not be to sure of that. Might happen a lot soon than we think if we don't do something about the current crop of criminals running this country, not only the Executive Branch, but also the legistative and judicial branches that are not following the United States Constitution.

Its here and spreading fast.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/09/02/...aw-in-america/

Just wait till we start having local areas elect Muslims into their police forces and political offices.

Sharia Law is real and no true Muslim will live without it. Sticking flowers into the end of gun barrels will not work for this issue. You will need to bring back those of us that actually fought for this country to drive out this threat.
You cannot negotiate nor compromise with these primitive tribes of Muslims.

Earlier Quote::
What do you uber-conservatives plan to do with the Muslim population in the United States?

THE VILLAGER II reply:::
Just like any cancer, you do whatever it takes to fight the spreading infection.