On the one hand, McCain has an ad linking Obama to Ayers. On the other, while on the campaign trail last week he tells his supporters they don't need to be afraid if Obama becomes president. So, guess the radical links really are Republican scare tactics rather than anything of true concern?

This campaign is just too ugly for words.

the politicians lead on any subject. They ALL say and do what ever is relevant at any given moment.
The facts of the matter are, there are issues of concern for either candidate. In the case of Obama, like it or not, he is a late arrival on the scene and like it or not there are not many people that know any more about him than what he or his organizers want you to know.
It is also been proven that he has been tied to some pretty scary organizations by most average American standards.
Every body should be doing their own research on their candidates. The least important input is what is seen and heard on television or the media....it is trumped up information, usually slandering the opponent...rarely do we get much substance about them or the issues.

Unknown entities need more than how they walk and talk to reach a conclusion.

Say what all will....Obama is NOT a known enough entity to the American people. To the party loyalists and followers, we all know that does not matter.

There is an old saying that the devil you know is much easier to deal with than the one you don't!!!! Let it mean what ever one wants.

BTK

Obama scares the heck out of me WITHOUT the scare tacktics are Red thinks warnings and data are.

If this weren't so imperative to know, I wouldn't be so adamant. But I do not want to find myself in the People's Republic of the United States.

With the events of both houses of Congress making us 'shareholders' in debt we don't want and taking over banks, AIG, etc., Socialism already has a big foot in the door.

Obama will finish the job. We will never be able to regain what we have lost at the hands of thugs and thieves we politely call our legislators.

I want accountability, not Socialism.

The banks, savings and loans, insurance companies and investment banks have all essentially been socialized--or will be in the near future. And that happened at the end of an eight-year administration by a Republican President, and six of eight years under a Republican Congress.

Almost anyone could hardly do worse, regardless of their political party affiliation.

Oh Redwitch,

I agree. I am so tired of all the slamming. Then after the elections, they kiss and make up. So BE NIce now!

Originally Posted by redwitch

On the one hand, McCain has an ad linking Obama to Ayers. On the other, while on the campaign trail last week he tells his supporters they don't need to be afraid if Obama becomes president. So, guess the radical links really are Republican scare tactics rather than anything of true concern?

This campaign is just too ugly for words.

I dont understand....I DO understand what you are saying...what I am a bit confused about is the yelling, and I do mean yelling, that is going on about how Sen McCain is stoking fires of hatred and stuff like that...YET when he tries to settle folks down, it is thrown back as scare tactics rather than any concern.

Well...

Google any of these...

Obama Ayers
Obama Acorn
Obama Wright
Obama Alinsky (never knew him but studied his "ways")
Obama Frank Davis
Obama Farrakhan


There are others but you get the picture.

Here is the point...this is a man in his mid 40's who has "somewhat" of a link to a lot of folks with dubious or radical extreme views. A man in his mid 40's !!!

Name ONE...JUST ONE....member of any elected body with that many tenuos ties to radicals...JUST ONE !!!

Now, that alone should alert you a bit....those kind of "associations" or "affliations" would destroy any other person who wanted to run for ANY office yet alone President, yet we are asked to ignore it.

If you bring ANY of this up, you are racist...you are stirring things up....this is what the Clintons had to endure during the primary and now those who today control the Dem party (MOVEON, etc.) are involved.

These are the same folks..Moveon etc...who cheered for a movie that featured the assination of the President of the USA (not a fictiuous character..the sitting President) and various other hate movies who now claim the pot is being stirred or you are a racist.

I find it wrong of you to criticize Sen McCain for trying to be a straight shooter and simply get some folks off the muslim thing (which is ridiculous).

What I am able to say on here about the LOADS of associations in Sen Obama's background....Sen McCain would not be allowed...he would be "eaten alive". The frustration you are hearing is that folks KNOW about all this background but we are stymied in discussing it.

Even on here folks will call me racist...they have here and in pms...because I have brought up TRUTHS and FACTS, not something I made up...and I assure you I am not a racist...I have never mentioned race in anyway shape of form.

What kind of nation do we have that if you criticize a man who is a different color on his idealogy you are a racist. That is just dumb.

I find it odd that some of the same claims are being made against Obama. Look at all the Anti-Christian remarks. Several claims of Communism and oh by the way he LIED to the American people. Its like an echo.....

The sad part is that this document circulated the day before John F Kennedy was shot and killed in Dallas.

Do we really want to go there again?

Originally Posted by cologal

I find it odd that some of the same claims are being made against Obama. Look at all the Anti-Christian remarks. Several claims of Communism and oh by the way he LIED to the American people. Its like an echo.....

The sad part is that this document circulated the day before John F Kennedy was shot and killed in Dallas.

Do we really want to go there again?

Cologal...sorry to disappoint you but dont know where you get your spin, but worse has been said and published about our current President and if you visit any website of the "kooky" variety you can find this stuff about what ever the opposing party is.

NOBODY, at least not me or anyone responsible has made any claims about treason or any such terms about Sen Obama (as HAS been made by our sitting President).

This just confuses the issue...what is being claimed is that Sen Obama has radical ties and ideologies...so very very much different. If the american people want that, so be it...it is just that nobody seems allowed to even prevent the case without being called some name such as racist !

Originally Posted by Bucco

Cologal...sorry to disappoint you but don't know where you get your spin, but worse has been said and published about our current President and if you visit any website of the "kooky" variety you can find this stuff about what ever the opposing party is.

NOBODY, at least not me or anyone responsible has made any claims about treason or any such terms about Sen Obama (as HAS been made by our sitting President).

This just confuses the issue...what is being claimed is that Sen Obama has radical ties and ideologies...so very very much different. If the American people want that, so be it...it is just that nobody seems allowed to even prevent the case without being called some name such as racist !

Bucco.... I can't agree with you at all. Using his middle name, and in the case you are referring to, using it as his first name has only one point. Perhaps I should have said using it was HATE SPEECH and if you check the later posts I did say perhaps I was to strong.

I posted that poster because it is an example of HATE SPEECH in the 60's..it not for point by point detail. I cannot connect the dots between Obama and Ayers..its just not there in the way you want it to be. In the W's Ayers was a Radical....not a Domestic Terrorist...the Terrorist now has a specific meaning especially since 9/11. He became a respected university professor and then he met Obama. When Obama sat on the board with Ayers did Ayers bomb anything? How about now...what has he bombed lately?


And now then go further down the road....

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpoi..._after_mic.php

This is getting totally ridiculous.....

I won't vote for McCain because:

• He voted against equal pay for women
• He voted against up armour for the troops
• He try to derail the New GI bill and skipped the vote
• My taxes will be higher under McCain
• I used to respect him but now he has lost all that (lying)

Given all that how in the world do I pull the lever for him?

who use President Bush as their reason to either vote for Obama or not vote for McCain. Since the war in Iraq has barely not been mentioned in the last days and weeks, let's exclude it.

The market was at it's all time high one year ago today. Everybody that could not afford a new house got one. All the speculators got $$$ from a system that would other wise never give them a dime. There was more growth and gain for everybody during the past 7 years. There has been a majority of Dems controlling Congress that since put in office has failed to do anything.y

To continue to gloss over the facts that Obama like it or not, has many, many questionable issues in his past. Just do your home work. Putting in the "other" party regardless who the candidate or his back ground is lemming like.
If after your real investigation Obama is your choice then so be it. But please stop using Bush as the reason....for crying out loud, Bush is not running.
And to accept the party first bluster that McCain is more of the same is just Horse droppings....media and party parroting rhetoric.

I suppose a Republican partisan proposal could be if it wern't for the record high levels of the stock market during the Bush administration your portfolios wouls be even one of a lot lower than they are at the moment. That makes as much sense as saying vote for Obama because of Bush!!!!

Does anyone know how many new jobs were created in the last 2 years? No, not likely. Does the media and partisan fluff ONLY talk about the jobs lost recently? Yes of course. Is the net job status from one year ago....jobs gained minus recent jobs lost + or - from the high? Why would anybody want to know that?

The media and the Obama money machine will only further distort the real status.

Where is the emergency legislation for energy independence? What a joke. Of course Congress is sitting on it continuing to do nothing....while the lemmings enjoy paying only $3 for gas.....then the Obama team (if he wins) can come on strong and attempt to do something to look like the saviors.

The media and the Obama machine will continue to stir the pot to frighten the American people...the do nothing lemmings....will fall for it.

I am not promoting McCain as the solution. I do not accept the premise of too many, including this forum who want to rationalize their choice based on Bush bashing. It is pure unadulterated !!!!

Obama is hoping for a populist landslide. History has shown populists accomplish only one objective...they get elected. Congress winning the majority and accomplishing nothing should be as unacceptable to EVERYBODY that just blaming Bush.

Party first is not the answer. I can hardly wait for the new Presidents 1st State of the Union address....who ever it may be. That will be the only litmus test. Who will the lemmings have to blame for the then lack of results??? Pure and simple ELECTIONEERING.....very little substance....and even less truth!!!

How pitifull to be so easily swayed.....without real investigation.

BTK

PS....I can't eve say ther I feel better, because I don't have any confidence in ANY of what is being presented....by EITHER party. Shame on we the people for allowing doing nothing by any of them.

Originally Posted by cologal

Bucco.... I can't agree with you at all. Using his middle name, and in the case you are referring to, using it as his first name has only one point. Perhaps I should have said using it was HATE SPEECH and if you check the later posts I did say perhaps I was to strong.

I posted that poster because it is an example of HATE SPEECH in the W's..it not for point by point detail. I cannot connect the dots between Obama and Ayers..its just not there in the way you want it to be. In the W's Ayers was a Radical....not a Domestic Terrorist...the Terrorist now has a specific meaning especially since 9/11. He became a respected university professor and then he met Obama. When Obama sat on the board with Ayers did Ayers bomb anything? How about now...what has he bombed lately?


And now then go further down the road....



http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpoi..._after_mic.php

This is getting totally ridiculous.....

I won't vote for McCain because:

• He voted against equal pay for women
• He voted against up armour for the troops
• He try to derail the New GI bill and skipped the vote
• My taxes will be higher under McCain
• I used to respect him but now he has lost all that (lying)

Given all that how in the world do I pull the lever for him?

You really have me confused Cologal....

1. I do not seen anywhere in this thread "his" middle name at all, thus not sure why you brought it up. Plus, you know it IS HIS MIDDLE NAME..he will have to use it sometime. If his folks didnt cry hate and racist everytime his middle name is mentioned perhaps it would not be such a big deal !!

2. You are missing the Ayers connection totally. Nobody says he is a terrorist today, and nobody says he hasnt done some good things. HOWEVER, AS OF THIS MINUTE..he still maintains he did the right thing in killing people and bombing and says he did no wrong. THAT is the issue Cologal. I suppose if any person who bombs and kills does good work but does not repent and still feels that their killing was justified, it would be ok with you !!

3. You really have been reading Huffington and such places when you list those 5 things you did. To bring up his vote on the armor or the GI bill would be the same as me bringing up all the votes that Sen Obama did not cast in Chicago. You have got to know the real reason on both those issues I would hope !

4. If you are calling Sen McCain a liar because of the Ayers issue, you are slandering him for no reason. No lies have been told...please, but I know you wont do the googling I suggested.

5. But by far the most erronious error on your list of 5 things you list about Sen McCain that is the most unfounded and almost the exacxt opposite of reality is your statement on taxes. You have not seen taxes until you see what you will pay under Sen Obama...and I ask you to save this not until he is in office, if elected, for a bit and bring it out and read it..I can almost guarantee it.

There's no sense at all trying to get liberals to understand this did not come from President Bush. I have my issues with him, but this is on the Dems and there is proof out of their own mouths.

Bush has given in and stopped fighting their idiocy. That makes him just as bad in my book. But, guess what -- HE'S NOT RUNNING.

The new Socialist Democrat Party platform is and that is the person of OBAMA.

So Colo or whomever does the JFK schtick, you're wrong. Jack Kennedy would be a Republican today.

Remember Ask not what your country can do for you... Well Obama says the country is going to everything for YOU. Ya get it !!

So Colo or whomever does the JFK schtick, you're wrong. Jack Kennedy would be a Republican today.
__________________________________________________ ____________________

You are so right. JFK would not even qualify as a moderate Democrat, but whatever, he would be in a state of shock over the radical left wing takeover of a once very very proud party...one which I worked inside for years !

Gee, I only found it interesting that McCain would have an ad tying Obama to Ayers and then tell his supporters that Obama is a good man and America has nothing to fear if he wins the presidency. Seems like a complete dichotomy to me.

As to his radical ties, I guess they really don't bother me all that much because if you look into my past and the past of most people who were in their late teens and early 20s in the 60s and 70s, you'd find many radical ties. That didn't mean we were radicals, it simply meant we knew many and were friends with them. Sometimes because they had the best dope, sometimes because they were the most interesting people, sometimes because we genuinely liked them.

Obama was raised by a mother and grandparents who were pretty much free thinkers. That pretty much guaranteed that he would be raised around radicals. So, this tie is, to me, tenuous at best.

I do have issues with Obama. I don't like how he came out of left field to run for the presidency. I don't like the fact that he is part of the Chicago political machine. I'm liberal, but that doesn't mean I believe that every liberal cause should be followed. I'm not convinced that Obama feels as I do.

All of that being said, if you like and respect McCain and believe him much of the time, then the radical issue should be tossed to the side, just as the Muslim issue seems to have finally died down. It was McCain who said Americans had nothing to fear from Obama as president after some of his supporters were screaming that Obama would bring socialism, Communism and radicalism to the White House if he became president. If McCain with his all of his resources says the man is genuine, maybe we should believe that he is and start looking at the issues, not the fears.

It really would be nice if a person's vote was based on what we felt the man could or could not do for the US and Americans in today's climate rather than worrying about ghosts. Personally, I want a President who is strong enough and savvy enough to be able to stand up to Congress and say the pork has got to stop; who understands that many Americans do need help but don't want a free ride, just a way to survive in today's world; who won't just start shooting from the hip but will actually do what is necessary to keep us out of unnecessary wars but be willing to stand up and fight if needed.

Yes, I'm leaning towards Obama but I truly haven't made up my mind. There are issues in my mind that haven't been resolved. For now, I know I'm not convinced that I want McCain. We still have a few weeks to see what both of these men do and say. Let's hope one of them shows some true Presidential qualities soon -- not just rhetoric.

Originally Posted by redwitch

Gee, I only found it interesting that McCain would have an ad tying Obama to Ayers and then tell his supporters that Obama is a good man and America has nothing to fear if he wins the presidency. Seems like a complete dichotomy to me.

As to his radical ties, I guess they really don't bother me all that much because if you look into my past and the past of most people who were in their late teens and early 20s in the 60s and 70s, you'd find many radical ties. That didn't mean we were radicals, it simply meant we knew many and were friends with them. Sometimes because they had the best dope, sometimes because they were the most interesting people, sometimes because we genuinely liked them.

Obama was raised by a mother and grandparents who were pretty much free thinkers. That pretty much guaranteed that he would be raised around radicals. So, this tie is, to me, tenuous at best.

I do have issues with Obama. I don't like how he came out of left field to run for the presidency. I don't like the fact that he is part of the Chicago political machine. I'm liberal, but that doesn't mean I believe that every liberal cause should be followed. I'm not convinced that Obama feels as I do.

All of that being said, if you like and respect McCain and believe him much of the time, then the radical issue should be tossed to the side, just as the Muslim issue seems to have finally died down. It was McCain who said Americans had nothing to fear from Obama as president after some of his supporters were screaming that Obama would bring socialism, Communism and radicalism to the White House if he became president. If McCain with his all of his resources says the man is genuine, maybe we should believe that he is and start looking at the issues, not the fears.

It really would be nice if a person's vote was based on what we felt the man could or could not do for the US and Americans in today's climate rather than worrying about ghosts. Personally, I want a President who is strong enough and savvy enough to be able to stand up to Congress and say the pork has got to stop; who understands that many Americans do need help but don't want a free ride, just a way to survive in today's world; who won't just start shooting from the hip but will actually do what is necessary to keep us out of unnecessary wars but be willing to stand up and fight if needed.

Yes, I'm leaning towards Obama but I truly haven't made up my mind. There are issues in my mind that haven't been resolved. For now, I know I'm not convinced that I want McCain. We still have a few weeks to see what both of these men do and say. Let's hope one of them shows some true Presidential qualities soon -- not just rhetoric.

1. As I tried to say in my other post....Sen McCain has been calling out Sen Obama for ties to folks who were or are unrepented radicals who engaged in terrorist acts. THIS IS TO POINT OUT HIS IDEALOGY WHICH IS RADICAL. I do not recall ANY campaigner saying anything personal about Sen Obama and thus Sen McCain just wanted to temper the crowd, which I cannot for the life of me understand why he is not applauded for that. He has never called Sen Obama a terrorist.....he has never said anything except ABOUT HIS IDEALOGY WHICH IS RADICAL.

And by the way, you and your friends DID NOT BOMB OR KILL ANYONE and remain unapologetic about it or say you would do it again. THAT is a huge difference dont you think ?

2. Now listen....we are talking about his radical ties SIMPLY TO POINT OUT HIS RADICAL SOCIALIST IDEALOGY. I do look at the issues....and Sen Obama is a RADICAL LEFT WING socialist. PERIOD. That means that any Supreme Court Justices he appoints will be of that mold.....that means that he, Biden, Pelosi and Reid will be our leaders for at least two years. This country has never been that far left. To discuss issues you have got to know how folks act when it comes to a vote or an appointment. Sen McCain has a record to look at and make your own judgement...Sen Obama does not thus you need to look at his training and who he surrounded himself with to get some idea....and that equals radical left wingers. Now, that does not mean he is a bad man...I, nor anyone on here to my knowledge or anyone on the campaign trail has attacked Sen Obama PERSONALLY.

I hope this makes sense. You keep saying how Sen McCain said he was good guy or something. He simply did not go after him personally...he simply disagrees totally with his ideals and by pointing out his associations with left wing radicals that should do it but nobody wants to listen. It seems it is hate mongering or racist or something...and that is really %^&&*(&^ me off !!!