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CDC release on breakthrough infections

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  #61  
Old 07-31-2021, 08:57 AM
kendi kendi is offline
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Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
The scientific method, taught to me years ago, went like this;

Define the problem.

Gather facts on the problem.

Come to a trial conclusion.

Check the trial conclusion.

I am NOT a scientist, nor am I greatly educated, but I loved all the sciences taught to me in the Columbus Public Schools in the fifties; Botany, Zoology, Biology, Advanced Biology, (Didn't LOVE Chemistry) but passed it. I think it was a very good basis for other learnings in life. I also still really see the obvious truth in Darwin's Theory of Evolution and selective breeding. I wish that I understood Genetics better, because I truly think that the future of medicine rests on it.
Yes, I learned this as well. But what it fails to include is that the "scientists" are not flawless. They make mistakes, can have an agenda, can be biased (even if not conscious of it) and so on. Scientists are humans too and there is a lot of pressure politically on them today that there wasn't back then. Also a lot of pressure within the field itself.

Add to this the difficulty in doing a study. There are multiple factors that need to be controlled in order for the study to be credible. And as I mentioned above the individuals must be unbiased. Meaning they have to have an excellent sense of self awareness cause it it very easy for anyone to bring bias into a study. There are other factors to consider as well such as the length of the study, the number of subjects studied, cross section of the subjects being studied, etc, etc. It's really quite surprising how many people quote "studies" as being factual without ever looking into how the study was done and the many factors that may have skewed the study. Even what the CDC puts out needs to taken with a grain of salt. Esp since it's a government entity that is vulnerable to persuasion by the powers to be.
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Old 07-31-2021, 09:15 AM
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Agree!
“CDC recently updated estimated infection fatality rates for COVID. Here are the updated survival rates by age group:

0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%”

Yet here we go again with vaccinated people masking up, discussions of schools possibly not opening up, and I guess next up are the business closures and churches again??? This is nuts!
  #63  
Old 07-31-2021, 09:18 AM
Spalumbos62 Spalumbos62 is offline
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You're correct. Immigration is not Fauci's responsibility. But if he was being honest, he'd certainly point to the mass migration occurring on the Southern border as being a huge problem as far as spreading the virus is concerned.

The government is sending these untested and unvaccinated people all over the country. At the same time, it's telling legal citizens they MUST wear masks and MUST get vaccinated. AND, it's telling the State of Texas, it's illegal for that State to stop the Feds from transporting these illegals to places unknown. AND, it has shut down the Northern border where the influx of illegals is practically nil.

The government is not looking out for the best interests of its citizens. It's all about power and control.

I can't tell what you are more mad at...the immigrants for coming in, or that they aren't vaccinated. Maybe they can't get the vaccine because they need to show proof of citizenship, which of course they don't have. The circle continues.
So maybe, instead of bit#$ing that they are here w/o a vaccine, yet happy they are doing the hot roofing jobs, the employer- and I use that term loosely- should provide the service of a vaccine. Of course there is just something not right about this suggestion, it would certainly solve the problem.
  #64  
Old 07-31-2021, 09:25 AM
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Those are still with us!
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I'm so glad I watch Fox News occasionally so I can keep up with the latest pivots....I see the constant pivoting to immigration and I can almost hear Tucker, or Laura, or Sean.....it is not Fauci's job to handle immigration...it's his job to study the virus and report, BASED ON FACTS, his recommendations. Yes, immigration is a problem but it is separate from the rest of the country's problem with the virus. Florida and all the counties in the Villages have very high positivity rates. That is the problem that needs to be addressed. Although, since people are so upset about immigration, I can't help but notice all the Hispanics doing the roof replacements in our neighborhood for all the law and order conservatives basically defrauding their insurance companies by claiming "storm damage" on 15 year old roofs. Show me an American who wants to replace a roof when the feels like temperature is 104? so much hypocrisy. They may be here legally or not, but they are doing work no American wants to do and since it's benefiting the "Build the Wall" people then it's ok.
So it’s OK for illegal aliens to take jobs from AMERICAN minorities so you can get an illegal to do your roof on the cheap.

Last edited by John41; 07-31-2021 at 09:36 AM.
  #65  
Old 07-31-2021, 09:26 AM
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Can you post a link to support this? The only things I could find say that ICE expects approximately 1.7m apprehensions or attempted illegal crossings in 2021. Also, while there are certainly many unvaccinated among these attempted illegal immigrants, there are over 150 million U.S. residents who are also unvaccinated, many by their own choice. Statistically speaking, who is the more likely culprit in spreading the virus?
The border should be closed with no one allowed in at this time! 13% is the positive rate for illegals and they are being released into our country. How about living in a border town where they are released being covid positive and they are staying in local hotels as reported in the news this week? It doesn’t take a genius to see that there is something very wrong here and why is this being allowed when we are struggling to get COVID under control with our own citizens?
  #66  
Old 07-31-2021, 09:46 AM
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Last paragraph of article you quoted;

"Staver contended that Howard-Browne’s arrest prompted Gov. Ron DeSantis to exempt churches, synagogue and other houses of worship in a statewide stay-at-home order released on April 1."
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  #67  
Old 07-31-2021, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by HRDave View Post
.0037% Basically zero percent.
1194 deaths in breakthrough cases out of 161 million vaccinated people = .00071%.
How close to zero do you need??

So it’s growing. It’s gonna take a lot of growing before it’s a significant number.
It’s GOT to burn through the unvaccinated population before it dies down. You can’t force those people to get vaccinated or you’re going to have a much larger problem than COVID-19 on your hands. The American people will not be tolerant of that.

CDC recently updated estimated infection fatality rates for COVID. Here are the updated survival rates by age group:

0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%

I’m not going to live in fear. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Let the unvaccinated make their choice.
If you’re vaccinated you have nothing to fear, but fear itself!
Hey! I’ve heard that somewhere before! 😎
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Originally Posted by Patriceunger View Post
Agree!
“CDC recently updated estimated infection fatality rates for COVID. Here are the updated survival rates by age group:

0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%”

Yet here we go again with vaccinated people masking up, discussions of schools possibly not opening up, and I guess next up are the business closures and churches again??? This is nuts!
Do either of you happen to have a link to where you found these numbers?

They don't appear to match the numbers from this CDC page with current counts or this CDC page with estimates for undercounts. Perhaps there is a third CDC page?

(Note: the numbers are close to those on the estimates page - let's hope the estimates are correct?)
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  #68  
Old 07-31-2021, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by HRDave View Post
There will be lawsuits. My experience in Healthcare HR showed that the employer will have to prove a valid reason for compelling employees to submit to a vaccine that hasn’t been approved by the FDA yet. We tried to force hospital employees to take the Flu vaccine in Illinois & were overruled by a judge who said as long as there was an alternative way to protect patients from infection, ie an N-95 Mask, we could not use vaccination as a condition of employment.
That was with an approved vaccine.
We’ll see how that pans out in today’s world.
Employees wearing mandated N95 masks to protect themselves and their patients is an excellent option to mandated vaccines.
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Old 07-31-2021, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
Last paragraph of article you quoted;

"Staver contended that Howard-Browne’s arrest prompted Gov. Ron DeSantis to exempt churches, synagogue and other houses of worship in a statewide stay-at-home order released on April 1."
I feel terrible for the good people of Australia under the gun of military now. The authoritism does not match
  #70  
Old 07-31-2021, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by heenables View Post
It was designed to have major breakthrough and the same death rate as the unvaccinated? Sounds reasonable... Now the comments of well there will be clusters etc. It's one of the only studies that shows the facts as they really are and I don't think many people here want to hear how many people are vulnerable to breakthrough after being vaccinated. I think the more major point of this study is stop pointing fingers at the unvaccinated with no proof and be concerned about yourself. You don't need to worry about me because I'm surely not worried about you. Put your mask on and hide in your home because there is a miniscule chance that either jabbed or not you will die.
The vaccine, like the Flu vaccine, may not stop you from becoming infected. It’s a mitigation to prevent serious illness or death. The Massachusetts cluster demonstrates just that. 274 vaccinated people infected at a beach party & only 4 were hospitalized & zero deaths!

I’m not a mask wearer & I’m damn sure NOT afraid!😎
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Old 07-31-2021, 11:54 AM
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Private companies are more nimble and flexible than the Federal Government. So, they can do the RIGHT thing and lead the way. "You can fool some of the people (like on a forum) ALL of the time". But, "you can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time". Do the right thing, listen to the CDC, and get your shot. Lives are depending on you!
  #72  
Old 07-31-2021, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by HRDave View Post
There will be lawsuits. My experience in Healthcare HR showed that the employer will have to prove a valid reason for compelling employees to submit to a vaccine that hasn’t been approved by the FDA yet. We tried to force hospital employees to take the Flu vaccine in Illinois & were overruled by a judge who said as long as there was an alternative way to protect patients from infection, ie an N-95 Mask, we could not use vaccination as a condition of employment.
That was with an approved vaccine.
We’ll see how that pans out in today’s world.
It is simple logic.......a mask can help to prevent a small % of CV infections. But, vaccines prevent close to 100% of hospitalizations and deaths. Most Judges and even regular people and forum-dwellers will eventually figure that one out.
  #73  
Old 07-31-2021, 12:12 PM
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We’ll see what happens as it plays out in the courts.
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  #74  
Old 07-31-2021, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by HRDave View Post
The vaccine, like the Flu vaccine, may not stop you from becoming infected. It’s a mitigation to prevent serious illness or death. The Massachusetts cluster demonstrates just that. 274 vaccinated people infected at a beach party & only 4 were hospitalized & zero deaths!

I’m not a mask wearer & I’m damn sure NOT afraid!😎
You're correct about the hospitalizations and death. That's always been the endgame, IMO, and I recall the CDC and medical professionals saying as much even early on. They never said you can't get COVID if vaccinated but that the impact would be less. Also, they knew you could still carry the virus and shed it which is why they want as many people as possible to be vaccinated.

Even traditional vaccines for the seasonal flu and other viruses are not 100 percent effective. People still get the flu after they've had the flu shot! Every doctor will tell you that. But they also will say if you get it you will have a milder form and less likely to end up in the hospital or worse.
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Old 07-31-2021, 12:20 PM
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New information is always interesting to me, BUT I would also appreciate it if they would give the positive along with the negative.
For instance, a friend of mine was about hysterical about the spike in Covid cases this month. I found it interesting, BUT since he seemed to be hyperventilating I decided to look up a figure that everyone should be able to appreciate. Turns out that the death rate in his state for the whole month was less than ONE DAY in the past Jan.
Maybe the Delta virus is less deadly.
Maybe the vaccination is making the virus less deadly.
Who knows? Instead of crying about how dark it is in the tunnel, how about thinking about that light that we can see at the end of the tunnel and keep on trucking towards it?
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