[Boomer]

"A good laugh and a long sleep are the best cures in a doctor's book." (Irish Proverb)

Shakespeare called it "Sleep that knits up the ravelled sleeve of care."

I doubt that there is anyone here among us on TOTV who has not had a bout with insomnia. It might come in the form of trouble going to sleep. Or it might be that waking up in the middle of the night thing where you want to go back to sleep but your brain does not.

I do OK most of the time. I tend to be a diurnal creature. But there are those times, those miserable times, when sleep is elusive.

Big Pharma makes a lot of money on those heavily advertised sleeping pills. I am sure they help some people. But for others they can cause some real problems. With Ambien (Hey, did you ever notice that the name of that one is a combo of AM and good?) ......anyway, with Ambien the word is that you better have your head on the pillow immediately after taking it or you might feel a little strange. I know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who gets up and eats in the middle of the night, with no recollection, since she has been taking Ambien. As I understand it, now she has started to cook meals in her sleep. I am not kidding. But like I said, for others it works just fine. I know people who have used it successfully.

Well, I am going on and on here and it is getting close to midnight when I get really sleepy and have no business posting so I will hurry up now.

Here is what I want to ask:

What are some things that you may know about that have worked for insomnia? Not pills. But just little things that help. Things for those times when your brain just wants to keep on ticking and ticking and will not SHUT UP!!!!

I have a couple of things that work. One is a CD that has only the sound of surf crashing on the beach. Once I got past thinking that I was supposed to be starring in "From Here to Eternity" I found that the rhythmic surf sound helps a lot. It focuses my brain somehow. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I push the button on the Bose and start it right up. It works more often than it doesn't.

The other thing that I have tried is saying the alphabet in random order. That one focuses the brain a little but bores you to sleep eventually. But the surf works better.

Any other ideas out there?

Goodnight Boomer

[l2ridehd]

Lots of Kettle One and ice. Works great every time.

[MSNPA]

I would actually pay to get a good, full night of sleep! I fall asleep quickly, but wake up around 2:00 or 3:00 and cannot get back to sleep. My doctor recommended I cease all caffeine. This did not work. It does not help that I have nocturnal cats. A friend told me to name all the states in alphabetical order. I have started this several times, but end up thinking about something else. I get a lot of exercise, but this does not seem to help. I really do not want to take pills. Would love to hear ideas that work.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by MSNPA

I would actually pay to get a good, full night of sleep! I fall asleep quickly, but wake up around 2:00 or 3:00 and cannot get back to sleep. My doctor recommended I cease all caffeine. This did not work. It does not help that I have nocturnal cats. A friend told me to name all the states in alphabetical order. I have started this several times, but end up thinking about something else. I get a lot of exercise, but this does not seem to help. I really do not want to take pills. Would love to hear ideas that work.

MSNPA,

Even though I plan to stick with my "waves crashing on the beach" CD that I wrote about last night, I decided to look in the CD section when I was at the bookstore earlier today. I wanted to see what else was there that might help people get to sleep. I found a lot of things that might be worth a try. Some of them were only 6 bucks. Some were music. Some were nature sounds. Lots of different choices. Maybe you could find something to try.

I have a friend who uses a sound machine and sets it on something like white noise. It sounds like a fan. And some people actually use a fan for the monotonous sound. It seems like focusing the brain on something besides worrying or planning can work sometimes.

For some a really hot soak in the tub before bed helps. Something about the cool down process I think.

Something else I have that can help when it gets light before I want to get up is a sleep mask. I ordered it from the Magellan catalogue that has all that travel stuff in it. It's the thing that people wear sometimes when they want to sleep on flights. I like this particular sleep mask because it has rounded-out parts where your eyes are so it does not lay flat against your eyelids.

I don't have a big sleep problem, but when that old brain of mine kicks in and will not leave me alone so I can sleep, I have to have some resources at hand. I hope you find something to help you. (btw, That naming the states thing would make my mind go elsewhere, too. It would be too hard for me to stick with.)

............................

And 12ridehd,

I knew nothing of Ketel One. I had the genre pegged, but I did not know exactly what kind of libation. And so I looked it up. Good stuff it looks like. But I could never drink it just over ice. It would have to become an ingredient in a chocolate or raspberry martini or, on short notice, just with some cranberry juice. (I think you might be cringing HD. I know that for some, mixing the really good smooth stuff is just a "perish the thought" sort of thing.) I am going to have to try this though. Not for sleeping. Just for trying. (I know. That's beer. Mr. Tony really needs to get us some martini drinking little guys to click on.)

Boomer

[Coconuts]

Boomer
When you mentioned the bookstore I thought you were headed to my favorite remedy: Books on tape (or CD, depending on what century you inhabit). But they've got to be familiar books, that you've read or heard before or else you may stay up to find out what happens. I get them to go walking or for long car trips. Then, they get relegated to the sleep pile. And the reader can make all the difference. David Suchet (Hercule Poirot) is my favorite.

[rshoffer]

Sleep is a complicated phenomenon that, hopefully, accounts for 1/3 of our existence on this planet.

There are tomes written on sleep disorders, their causes and management.

Educational seminars for physicians on sleep disorders abound and are usually days in length.

Study after study shows that we are a sleep deprived culture and excessive daytime sleepiness causes a frightening number of auto accidents and industrial accidents (eg: The Exxon-Valdez catastrophe was the reult of a sleep deprived Captain).

As a psychiatrist for 33 years it is interesting that the 2 most common complaints I hear from people are: 1) I'm always tired and 2) I can't sleep.

The temptation to resort to hypnotics (sleeping pills) is great, both for pt and physician. They work. But, in reality they are like mini-anesthetics and , no matter what you are told, can easily lead to dependence (NOT to be confused with addiction.... a BIG difference).

Sleeps like sex.... the harder you try to get it to work, the more you mess it up. (ever notice how when you fight to stay awake when watching a movie you've rented on a Fri nite you always fall asleep on the couch?)

Although "sleep specialists" have developed a subspeciality in medicine, my experience has been that their primary focus is Obstructive sleep apnea or Restless Leg Syndrome and that the majority of patients are left with a dx of "psychophysiologic insomnia" or "idiopathic insomnia" ... translation-->"you can't sleep and I don't know why".

Many psych disorders have insomnia as a core symptom, especially bad depression.

Assuming that's not the case there are 2 excellent behavioral techniques that work great BUT they require an incredible amt of personal discipline.
Google : Sleep Restriction Therapy and Stimulus Control Therapy for treatment of insomnia.

Good nite Chet.... Good nite David.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by rshoffer

Sleep is a complicated phenomenon that, hopefully, accounts for 1/3 of our existence on this planet.

There are tomes written on sleep disorders, their causes and management.

Educational seminars for physicians on sleep disorders abound and are usually days in length.

Study after study shows that we are a sleep deprived culture and excessive daytime sleepiness causes a frightening number of auto accidents and industrial accidents (eg: The Exxon-Valdez catastrophe was the reult of a sleep deprived Captain).

As a psychiatrist for 33 years it is interesting that the 2 most common complaints I hear from people are: 1) I'm always tired and 2) I can't sleep.

The temptation to resort to hypnotics (sleeping pills) is great, both for pt and physician. They work. But, in reality they are like mini-anesthetics and , no matter what you are told, can easily lead to dependence (NOT to be confused with addiction.... a BIG difference).

Sleeps like sex.... the harder you try to get it to work, the more you mess it up. (ever notice how when you fight to stay awake when watching a movie you've rented on a Fri nite you always fall asleep on the couch?)

Although "sleep specialists" have developed a subspeciality in medicine, my experience has been that their primary focus is Obstructive sleep apnea or Restless Leg Syndrome and that the majority of patients are left with a dx of "psychophysiologic insomnia" or "idiopathic insomnia" ... translation-->"you can't sleep and I don't know why".

Many psych disorders have insomnia as a core symptom, especially bad depression.

Assuming that's not the case there are 2 excellent behavioral techniques that work great BUT they require an incredible amt of personal discipline.
Google : Sleep Restriction Therapy and Stimulus Control Therapy for treatment of insomnia.

Good nite Chet.... Good nite David.

Thanks, Doc,

Your response here is much appreciated.

I have known of cases where depression and insomnia seem to be like that thing about which comes first -- the chicken or the egg? It looks like Shakespeare had it right, "Sleep that knits up the ravelled sleeve of care."

My guess is that the temptation for that supposed quick fix of the pills is partially, or maybe even mostly, driven by insurance companies unwilling to pay for the time behavioral therapy takes.

I have a book (not exactly one of those tomes you mention though) called Sleep: A Groundbreaking Guide to the Mysteries, the Problems, and the Solutions by Carlos H. Schenck, M.D. I bought it over a year ago after hearing about it on NPR. I have an interest in the topic. I started to read it. I have to say that it was fascinating and eye-opening. (Yes, I meant to say that.) Parts of it were downright scary. It went beyond insomnia into some absolutely hellish sleep disorders. Not a pleasant read. In fact, I did not finish it.

Finding the solution to sleep problems sure would be life-changing for so many people in so many ways.

Boomer

[sschuler1]

I have problems getting to sleep, and it mainly stems from not being able to turn my brain to "off". My hubby can lay his head on the pillow and be instantly to sleep. It ticks me off!!! I find that if I can sneek into the bedroom about a half hour before him, I can turn on a rerun of some old show that I have seen a million times and fall asleep while I am watching it. It distracts my brain enough, but then bores it at the same time.....

[barb1191]

Watching television in bed lulls me to sleep. One must watch something that will not stir emotions but merely be pleasantly entertaining. One channel I watch every bedtime is HDTV where they are removating and/or selling homes.

I set the sleep timer on the television for an hour and am sound asleep in about ten minutes and the television turns off automatically within the hour.

Hope this helps; works for me.....barb

[rshoffer]

Originally Posted by sschuler1

I have problems getting to sleep, and it mainly stems from not being able to turn my brain to "off". My hubby can lay his head on the pillow and be instantly to sleep. It ticks me off!!! I find that if I can sneek into the bedroom about a half hour before him, I can turn on a rerun of some old show that I have seen a million times and fall asleep while I am watching it. It distracts my brain enough, but then bores it at the same time.....

Even though you'll often hear experts advise that you not read in bed, I find that for those that "can't turn off their brain" when their head hits the pillow this often helps: get a soft nitestand light, just bright enough that you can read. Then get a good novel, or book that you have an interest in (NOT a magazine) and go to bed with the mindset that you are going to read as much as you can until you fall asleep... usually by page 2 your eyelids will feel like they are coated in lead and you'll be fighting to stay awake... dogear the page, turn off the light and sweet dreams.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by rshoffer

Even though you'll often hear experts advise that you not read in bed, I find that for those that "can't turn off their brain" when their head hits the pillow this often helps: get a soft nitestand light, just bright enough that you can read. Then get a good novel, or book that you have an interest in (NOT a magazine) and go to bed with the mindset that you are going to read as much as you can until you fall asleep... usually by page 2 your eyelids will feel like they are coated in lead and you'll be fighting to stay awake... dogear the page, turn off the light and sweet dreams.

May I suggest anything by Charles Dickens or Herman Melville.

Boomer

On second look...... Ohhhhh, I see that you said "have an interest in." That makes perfect sense. When distracting the brain is the name of the game, interesting reading would work best. Not Dickens or Melville. (nevermind)

[JohnN]

Three things:
1) Do NOT use ambien or any other Rx for any length of time. They can be dangerous and I know this first hand. Send a note if you want ugly details.

2) I recently started taking a 1-mg (very low dose) Melatonin , which is quite safe, and it seems to help.

3) I have read and practiced somewhat successfully both mediation and hypnosis. Works well for sleep, and also in the dentists chair LOL

[tpop1]

When I was a manager, I often had issues which would awaken me in the wee hours of the AM.

My mind would race, worry would take over and I would be up until the alarm went off. When I did get up in the morning, the problems would seem greater than they really were.

I started sleeping with a headphone earbud in and a sports talk radio station on. When I would wake up, I could concentrate on the sports and not the problems, have my mind stop racing and fall back to sleep.

Still do it effectively til this day.

[collie1228]

I travel to Asia 6-9 times each year, and suffer severe jet lag both when I get there and when I return (travel across twelve time zones will do that). Unfortunately, my jet lag results in my not being able to sleep at all on arrival and only 3-4 hours for several days after my return. My only defense is a pill - benadryl. It is a very safe non-addictive medication which has a side effect of sleepiness, which is why it is the active ingredient in many over the counter sleeping medicines. One glass of wine and two benadryls on arrival and I sleep for 4-6 hours. Not great sleep, as I am groggy for twenty minutes when I wake up, but I have to get some sleep or work becomes impossible. My doctor agrees I should use it, but he cautions me about the glass of wine. But since I negotiate complicated contracts with international customers, I need to be as awake as I can be on arrival. It works for me. I tried melatonin several years ago, but sometimes it helped and sometimes it didn't.

[ssmith]

no pills but I too vote for low dose melatonin. This is natural sleep hormone and gives a really restful sleep...without the drowsiness the next day. I learned this from working with menopausal Sx. Of course like all over -the- counter meds you have to be careful since they are not regulated. Hope this helps