[karostay]

Don't forget
Car Crashes Kill 40,000 in U.S. Every Year
Don't let your children ride to school

[ugotme]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Gun free zones do not preclude the presence of an armed security team. It merely means that the general populace cannot bring guns into the building.

Concealed carry in Florida is popular - but there are places you will be arrested if you carry. A prime example is in a bar or bar area of a restaurant. There are signs on the outside door at the Sheriff's stations saying that you - not a police officer- cannot enter with a weapon.

Basically, it seems that so many do not understand what a gun free zone means.

And I will ask again Do you REALLY think a criminal cares about a gun free zone???? C'mon!

I, and all law abiding citizens, will not bring a gun there but the bad guy could care less about the sign!

[buggyone]

Originally Posted by ugotme

And I will ask again Do you REALLY think a criminal cares about a gun free zone???? C'mon!

I, and all law abiding citizens, will not bring a gun there but the bad guy could care less about the sign!

What cannot you understand that there CAN be armed security personnel in a gun free zone? Schools in urban settings should have them. Many already do!

Where specifically would you want to carry your gun that is now designated as gun free?

[DaleMN]

Facts.....opinions.....tomatoes......tomottoes...: doh:

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by karostay

Don't forget
Car Crashes Kill 40,000 in U.S. Every Year
Don't let your children ride to school

And, remember that they can be used as weapons.

Stephen King's latest horror novel features a killer who at least starts with a car. TOP SHELF: 'Mr. Mercedes' - The Monitor: Valley Life

I am for any common sense solutions that will stop shootings. Someone very well trained with a pistol and who has one and will use it in these kind of situations is one approach. You probably want someone though that would be able to handle the taking of life. That probably would not apply to most teachers. I would assume that most cops who have had to use their weapons to kill have problems handling this.

[KayakerNC]

Originally Posted by janmcn View Post
Weren't the eight police officers gunned down in the past two months 'good guys with guns'? Why would the two policemen having lunch at Cici's pizza in Las Vegas last week-end, or the three police officers in New Brunswick Canada, or the two state troopers killed in the hinterlands of Alaska not able to protect themselves, but a school teacher with a classroom full of students would be able to shoot to kill and protect those kids?

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Good men with guns sometimes get killed by bad men with guns. That is a sad fact of life. However, it is also a fact that the killers are ultimately brought to justice by other good men with guns.
.

Actually, these killers were brought to justice by bad guys with guns, murder/suicide.

[Steve9930]

This debate could go on forever. But in the mean time secure the schools. If that means more law enforcement in the schools then lets get it done. For those teachers who have come forward and indicated they would carry a weapon to help secure the school, train them and make sure they are mentally capable to handle that job. For those that would like to allow more people to carry weapons in all areas that's fine but before that happens we need to setup a training program and a philological evaluation program to make sure they are capable. Make sure every school has a plan to keep the children safe. Whether that be a lock down plan, armed security, medal detectors, or a combination of all of the above. Will this stop the madness, absolutely not but it will help to tip the odds in the favor of the children. Then we need to have a real serious conversation about why we have these people committing these crimes. Not until we start to address this mental and social problem will anything really change. By increasing security all we are doing is improving the lock on the door so to speak. To fix the problem we have to fix the person.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by janmcn
Weren't the eight police officers gunned down in the past two months 'good guys with guns'? Why would the two policemen having lunch at Cici's pizza in Las Vegas last week-end, or the three police officers in New Brunswick Canada, or the two state troopers killed in the hinterlands of Alaska not able to protect themselves, but a school teacher with a classroom full of students would be able to shoot to kill and protect those kids?


Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa
Good men with guns sometimes get killed by bad men with guns. That is a sad fact of life. However, it is also a fact that the killers are ultimately brought to justice by other good men with guns.
.

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

Actually, these killers were brought to justice by bad guys with guns, murder/suicide.

I can't even rebut your generalized statement about "these killers" until you give specific references that can be researched on the Internet, but I dispute your assertion.

Are you claiming that all of the police officer killings alluded to above were simple cases of the killers walking up and shooting the officers and then turning their guns on themselves? I certainly doubt that.

Killers who commit suicide generally do so when confronted by police or other armed personnel prepared to arrest or shoot them. In that context they are still brought to justice (using the term I used in my original statement) by the "intervention" of armed good men.

I stand by my statement THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO STOP A BAD MAN WITH A GUN IS INTERVENTION BY A GOOD MAN WITH A GUN.

[KayakerNC]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Originally Posted by janmcn
Weren't the eight police officers gunned down in the past two months 'good guys with guns'? Why would the two policemen having lunch at Cici's pizza in Las Vegas last week-end, or the three police officers in New Brunswick Canada, or the two state troopers killed in the hinterlands of Alaska not able to protect themselves, but a school teacher with a classroom full of students would be able to shoot to kill and protect those kids?


Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa
Good men with guns sometimes get killed by bad men with guns. That is a sad fact of life. However, it is also a fact that the killers are ultimately brought to justice by other good men with guns.
.



I can't even rebut your generalized statement about "these killers" until you give specific references that can be researched on the Internet, but I dispute your assertion.

Are you claiming that all of the police officer killings alluded to above were simple cases of the killers walking up and shooting the officers and then turning their guns on themselves? I certainly doubt that.

Killers who commit suicide generally do so when confronted by police or other armed personnel prepared to arrest or shoot them. In that context they are still brought to justice (using the term I used in my original statement) by the "intervention" of armed good men.

I stand by my statement THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO STOP A BAD MAN WITH A GUN IS INTERVENTION BY A GOOD MAN WITH A GUN.

Shooting In Las Vegas Leaves 5 Dead : NPR

[sunglow]

These kind of shootings are not happening in Europe or Canada where they have gun control!

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by sunglow

These kind of shootings are not happening in Europe or Canada where they have gun control!

iT IS NOT THE GUN CONTROL in Europe or Canada. It is the fact there is more discipline and much, MUCH less permissiveness (for everything). They are not afraid to do what needs to be done without concern for every single special interest or religious or political feel gooder.

Take a look at the gun and killing statistics in Los Angeles, Chicago, NYC and Washington, DC........war zones of killing all.....and they have the strictest gun control laws in the country. So why is it they have such a big problem of daily killings????????

It is the lack of action, don't hurt ANYBODY'S feelings, lack of discipline, too permissive society. That is where to start.

[NoMoSno]

Originally Posted by sunglow

These kind of shootings are not happening in Europe or Canada where they have gun control!

A quick google search turned up these:

Cumbria shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moncton shootings: The challenge of detaining someone who poses a risk - Canada - CBC News

There were many more listed.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

Shooting In Las Vegas Leaves 5 Dead : NPR

Well, no. If this is your proof that police intervention was not what brought this murderous attack to an end, you are mistaken.

You must have missed the follow up news conference where the Las Vegas Police spokesman announced that autopsy results showed that the male assailant was in fact killed by a police rifle bullet, not by a bullet from the female assailant. The female was also struck by police fire.

Police, not wife, killed Las Vegas cop slayer

Also note that the killers shot the police officers and then fled. They did not intend to be apprehended or participate in a suicide pact. They fled to the Walmart store where the male was killed by police fire. The woman, after being wounded by police killed herself, which (as I have said previously) is not uncommon when the bad person with a gun is confronted by the good person with a gun.

The high incidence of assailants shooting themselves when they encounter armed opposition is a major argument for having police officers or other armed individuals constantly present on school campuses, rather than having to wait for a police response after the shooting has started.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by sunglow

These kind of shootings are not happening in Europe or Canada where they have gun control!

The United States has gun control. We have hundreds and hundreds of gun regulations regarding the acquisition, storage, utilization and disposition of firearms. We have gun regulations at both the federal level and at the state level. We have laws that regulate possession and display of firearms.

What we also have is a Constitutional Right to "keep and bear arms." Our founding fathers felt this was a fundamental right of a free people.

We also have criminals who violate our gun control laws. If we had an outright ban on possession of guns, the criminals would violate that law too.

Interestingly, the USA cities with some of the most stringent "gun control" laws are the cities with the highest violent crime rate using guns.

.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by sunglow

These kind of shootings are not happening in Europe or Canada where they have gun control!

Well, yes they are. See the links posted by several members here. And there are not as many as the anti rights crowd would like us to believe. Check out the threads that I posted. They use all kinds of false and misleading information to make us believe that the problem is much bigger than it is.

Additionally, we have more gun control laws in this country than at any time in our history. In fact you could draw a correlation that shows that the more gun control we have, the more gun violence we have. In the 1940s and 50s guns were much more readily available and less regulated but we didn't have these kinds of shootings. As we increase control of guns and made them less available, incidents increased.

As has been pointed out laws don't prevent crimes, they only define crimes. A crime occurs when someone breaks a law.