[Bogie Shooter]

Yes, a nut job.
But who is giving these white nationalist/supremacist the racist fodder?

Police say a document they believe was written by the 21-year-old white male suspect has a "nexus to a potential hate crime."
The four-page document posted online espouses white nationalist and racist views. It rails against immigrants and Hispanics, blaming immigrants and first-generation Americans for taking away jobs and for the blending of cultures in the US.

[Midnight Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

What can be done? How can it be done? Asylums? Who will ascertain who is the potentially dangerous criminally insane? A very difficult situation.

Remove guns and weapons from all homes? Do not sell new ones? That means that people with a moral compass will give up their weapons and not buy new ones.

Pass a law about AK47s? Most people would agree with that, but hard liners of the second amendment would not.

We have tried to work hard and save and buy homes in safe parts of the world. Never felt the need to be armed, but that is changing for the older people who do not hit hard, run fast and even get out of chairs quickly.

This is very complex. This is far more than political.

What can be done and how to do it? As long as no one becomes proactive with sound doable ideas, there will never be any change.
An asylum? Ridiculous! No one has ever brought that up as a deterrent. Besides, an asylum would be "after-the-fact" and solves nothing.

Remove guns from homes and not sell new ones? That's absurd and that will NEVER happen. As with many things, laws have been adjusted to keep up with changes. The same should apply to this amendment. When the Second Amendment was written, there was no such thing as an AK anything. These weapons were not designed for ownership by the public-at-large. The military? Yes! Law enforcement? Yes! And probably some other venues that aren't coming to mind right now.

Work hard to buy a home in a safe place? That's laughable because there is no such thing. A mass murderer is not targeting older people. No one is immune from being killed when such a person is on the warpath.

So what is the beginning? Universal laws, not just state-by-state. Stringent background checks to include things as innocuous-sounding as Facebook, Twitter, etc. Put a tax on weapons to cover the cost of more intricate methods of checking someone out. Interview neighbors of the applicant. Have a longer waiting period to gain ownership. Have the government buy back automatic weapons.

I'm not saying that these things should be done or would work. But it could be a possible beginning. A change will take a long time -- a very long time to begin working. But we are at the point in this country where we need to start with some changes somewhere.

Yes, the situation is far more than political. Unfortunately, nothing has changed because it is political. Four mass murders in different parts of the country all within one week's time? We need to stop talking about it and do something. Otherwise, nothing will change.

[Midnight Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Semantics maybe but “taking guns off the street” to me equals banning. I didn’t say if it was right or wrong, just that the problems are stemming from mental illness.

Mental illness may be a part of all these mass murders, but I believe it's only a small part of it.

What I do believe is the underlying cause is based on prejudice, ignorance and pure, unadulterated hate. These things are not a mental illness. They are probably an environmental and learned behavior.

And since a cure for that is pretty remote, I believe we have to rely on changes in some laws.

[New Englander]

I could be wrong but I think the majority of these mass murderers are not insane. They are full of hate and anger.

[Velvet]

Where does this hate and anger come from? This beautiful, abundant country, in the Old Testament it’d be probably referred to as another land of milk and honey.

I am trying to understand. I see the beauty where is the ugliness? To me it seems artificial and invented.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

The bad guys just steal guns. If every law was passed so no gun would ever again be sold, and guns were taken from people, the bad guys would still have them.

I don't agree that gun control is the solution.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by New Englander

I could be wrong but I think the majority of these mass murderers are not insane. They are full of hate and anger.

Hate and anger. Close to the truth.

I was just told my views, two posts up were in exact words;

Ridiculous

Absurd

Laughable

Solves nothing.

Those are very harsh words to say the least and are only one person's opinion. However if someone had suffered a personal loss, a death, or had been very ill, or just been through any kind of stressful period in their lives, those harsh and critical words might be enough to cause them to be very hurt and angry or terribly depressed. I believe those very words could have been changed to less demeaning ones...easily.

Or one could simply have remained silent. All of this are just opinions and we all think we are right.

Some, even if they are right, know how to make people angry and feel bad.

[Velvet]

I guess I am thinking, when one of us gets hurt, we are all hurting. Just look at us in TOTV how concerned we are about these shootings.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Yes, a nut job.
But who is giving these white nationalist/supremacist the racist fodder?

Police say a document they believe was written by the 21-year-old white male suspect has a "nexus to a potential hate crime."
The four-page document posted online espouses white nationalist and racist views. It rails against immigrants and Hispanics, blaming immigrants and first-generation Americans for taking away jobs and for the blending of cultures in the US.

Here is a copy of the alleged Manifesto. I think he is very wrong, but I don't see any evidence that either party gave this obviously disoriented and mentally ill person the impetus to think this way.

El Paso Walmart Shooter Patrick Crusius Full Manifesto | TheCount.com

When we are confused and saddened some of us want to blame someone or something. It may be many someones or somethings. There is nothing wrong with being white, we had no choice in the matter and most of us love our country above all others. Dismissive name calling is not helpful in this or most situations. He is probably screwed up for a lot of reasons. His mother died when he was seventeen. Some people cannot handle overwhelming grief if they have a weakened mental state. But,I am angry with him. I believe most humans know it is wrong to kill other humans unless they are attacking us or our family.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Here is a copy of the alleged Manifesto. I think he is very wrong, but I don't see any evidence that either party gave this obviously disoriented and mentally ill person the impetus to think this way.

El Paso Walmart Shooter Patrick Crusius Full Manifesto | TheCount.com

When we are confused and saddened some of us want to blame someone or something. It may be many someones or somethings. There is nothing wrong with being white, we had no choice in the matter and most of us love our country above all others. Dismissive name calling is not helpful in this or most situations. He is probably screwed up for a lot of reasons. His mother died when he was seventeen. Some people cannot handle overwhelming grief if they have a weakened mental state. But,I am angry with him. I believe most humans know it is wrong to kill other humans unless they are attacking us or our family.

You are a wise person, and considering I am a liberal I find it very distressing that I can't find anything to disagree with you on!

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Where does this hate and anger come from? This beautiful, abundant country, in the Old Testament it’d be probably referred to as another land of milk and honey.

I am trying to understand. I see the beauty where is the ugliness? To me it seems artificial and invented.

I don't know.

[anothersteve]

There's going to be a lot more coming out about both of these tragedies. Everyone really needs to refrain from rash judgments about the "who", what and why until then.Take a breath..jeez...the bodies are barely cold for Christ's sake!
The one thing that we all know is they were both wackos...period!
Steve

[Marathon Man]

I have never owned a gun. I don't plan on owning one in the future. I'm not against gun ownership, but I think that there needs to be some kind of change made (way beyond me to know exactly what change).

One thing I can see reading through all the posts - There is a lot of disagreement and misunderstanding of exactly what the law is concerning gun purchase and carry.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by Midnight Cowgirl

As with many things, laws have been adjusted to keep up with changes. The same should apply to this amendment. When the Second Amendment was written, there was no such thing as an AK anything.
When the 1st Amendment was written there was no such thing as internet, television, telephone, radio, or Facebook and Twitter. Are you willing to change the 1st Amendment to restrict the hate found in the various media today? Be careful, the definition of Hate can be quite broad. Disagreeing with the government could be construed as improper speech.
These weapons were not designed for ownership by the public-at-large. The military? Yes! Law enforcement? Yes! And probably some other venues that aren't coming to mind right now.
The AK 47 style rifles and the AR 15 rifles being sold are not fully automatic, they are semi-automatic versions meaning you have to pull the trigger each time to fire a round. The issue M16/M4 rifles used in the military today are full automatic, meaning that it will keep on firing as long as hold the trigger back. The military does not use semi-automatic weapons in general issue. There may be some used by special operations units in a specialized role, possibly as a sniper weapon.
So what is the beginning? Universal laws, not just state-by-state.
As I have written many times before this, have you read those posts, that the Gun Control Act of 1968 established federal laws on how guns are sold, purchased and transported that all states must comply with. States cannot pass laws that lessen the federal law, they can only add to the law. Many states have added further restrictions but none are going willy nilly ignoring federal law.
Stringent background checks to include things as innocuous-sounding as Facebook, Twitter, etc. Put a tax on weapons to cover the cost of more intricate methods of checking someone out. Interview neighbors of the applicant. Have a longer waiting period to gain ownership. Have the government buy back automatic weapons.
How about a tax on Facebook, Twitter, etc for allowing hate speech and bullying to be posted. Maybe we should have more stringent checks on people before we let them obtain a drivers license to insure they are stable and smart enough to operate a motor vehicle or purchase a kitchen knife. A lot of spouses have been killed or injured with a butcher knife. The only fully automatic weapons owned by civilian are severely regulated by the federal government. I can't remember when the last time I heard of a fully automatic weapon being used in a crime but it was a police officer who committed the crime. As far a waiting periods, many stated mandate a waiting period and Florida is one of them. Most of these mass shooting perpetrators obtained their guns months prior to the shooting so a waiting period does nothing.

I'm not saying that these things should be done or would work. But it could be a possible beginning. A change will take a long time -- a very long time to begin working. But we are at the point in this country where we need to start with some changes somewhere.
If you don't think it would work why waste the time to pass such laws? We need to take an honest look at what is causing the hate and work on solutions for that problem.

Yes, the situation is far more than political. Unfortunately, nothing has changed because it is political. Four mass murders in different parts of the country all within one week's time? We need to stop talking about it and do something. Otherwise, nothing will change.

The reason nothing has changed, even though states and cities pass more and more restrictive gun laws, is that the laws aren't being obeyed by the criminal. The only reason for laws is it provides the government a legal basis for charging, prosecuting and to sentence the violator to prison. Laws don't stop criminal behavior.

[ahayward65]

I guess a start would be to pass some laws concerning the sale of guns!