[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

Lets save the free stuff for the "legals" for another day. That's another post about how all the "legals" are abusing the welfare system and don't want to work. You know-how we all worked hard for where we got and today everyone wants a handout. Please don't confuse and already confusing situation full of innuendo and disinformation!

No, let's not save it for another day... the free stuff is the essence of what this problem is all about and we all know that. While no doubt most illegals are fleeing rotten circumstances, please note they are not going to Nicaragua, even though this socialist country has nice beaches and retirement real estate. They are coming to the US because they know we are a soft touch for "kids" and they will get free stuff. Heck, thy get free airplane tickets too, three squares, medical treatment, ACLU lawyers, etc.

I would also ask that you not use sarcasm about how we all worked hard etc .. because in fact we did. I'm assuming you did too ?

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

The Mexican immigrants entering the usa are only going back to the land that the US took away from them --- it was their land - how about the land the American Indians owned - that we decided we wanted and took. Now we can tell rest of the world who owns what and who does not - and who should govern the land they live in - pass the tea or kool-aid

These illegal immigrants are largely descendants of indigenous populations from areas further south in Mexico as well as other countries in Latin America. They are not the descendants of persons displaced from the southwestern USA.

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

No, let's not save it for another day... the free stuff is the essence of what this problem is all about and we all know that. While no doubt most illegals are fleeing rotten circumstances, please note they are not going to Nicaragua, even though this socialist country has nice beaches and retirement real estate. They are coming to the US because they know we are a soft touch for "kids" and they will get free stuff. Heck, thy get free airplane tickets too, three squares, medical treatment, ACLU lawyers, etc.

I would also ask that you not use sarcasm about how we all worked hard etc .. because in fact we did. I'm assuming you did too ?

Yes, payed for everything since I was 16 including rent, clothes, etc. So I understand the hard luck have not being born with with an endowed support system. Never inherited a dime and worked my way through college. With that, I do not believe everyone is trying to take advantage of me or the system or have the bitterness that I feel is sometimes manifested on this site.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

Yes, payed for everything since I was 16 including rent, clothes, etc. So I understand the hard luck have not being born with with an endowed support system. Never inherited a dime and worked my way through college. With that, I do not believe everyone is trying to take advantage of me or the system or have the bitterness that I feel is sometimes manifested on this site.

Congratulations then on achieving the American Dream via the route of hard work. Sound like you were also the first in your family to earn a college degree. I was the first in mine as well.

However, I think you're indulging in something of a straw man with your last sentence. The people on this board who are upset about the lack of immigration law enforcement do not believe "...everyone" is trying to take advantage of them. However, it is perfectly obvious that the illegals are fleeing rotten hellhole countries and attempting to get "permisos" to live in the USA, and then get the free stuff that goes with it. Do you actually dispute that on a factual basis? If so, please come out and argue that point directly.

You may feel "bitterness" is manifested. Others would say we are fed up with being made to somehow feel guilty about living in America and being successful. We've reached our limit with this border fiasco. What you see as bitterness, I would term frustration or exasperation -- coupled with a demand for action that is increasing, and will not go away.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

Congratulations then on achieving the American Dream via the route of hard work. Sound like you were also the first in your family to earn a college degree. I was the first in mine as well.

However, I think you're indulging in something of a straw man with your last sentence. The people on this board who are upset about the lack of immigration law enforcement do not believe "...everyone" is trying to take advantage of them. However, it is perfectly obvious that the illegals are fleeing rotten hellhole countries and attempting to get "permisos" to live in the USA, and then get the free stuff that goes with it. Do you actually dispute that on a factual basis? If so, please come out and argue that point directly.

You may feel "bitterness" is manifested. Others would say we are fed up with being made to somehow feel guilty about living in America and being successful. We've reached our limit with this border fiasco. What you see as bitterness, I would term frustration or exasperation -- coupled with a demand for action that is increasing, and will not go away.

There is only one way to change the direction of this country, and that is with new leadership. To get that new leadership, one will need the support of Hispanics and all other minorities. It's just a matter of demographics.

It's sort of like a Catch 22 situation.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by janmcn

There is only one way to change the direction of this country, and that is with new leadership. To get that new leadership, one will need the support of Hispanics and all other minorities. It's just a matter of demographics.

It's sort of like a Catch 22 situation.

the recent and current influx and no enforcement of immigration rules is for sure future seeding.....eh?

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by billethkid

the recent and current influx and no enforcement of immigration rules is for sure future seeding.....eh?

No. The numbers were there in 2008 and 2012, long before the recent and current influx.

[Rags123]

As expected we have the same folks now beginning the political slamming and thus sadly, another discussion will bite the dust.

This thread was NOT about politics. It was about a poster who felt the American dream of immigrating here was dead. It fostered, rightfully so, into a discussion of the current border problem.

Those who now talk of elections, voting blocs, etc are the ones that have NO...ZERO views on the subject at hand yet are now going to get into the name calling which they call discussion.

This will end this thread of course and sometimes I think these SAME folks have that as their intent.

But to close.....our borders are still welcoming in my opinion but with controls that we has the owner of those borders should set. We need to enforce current law on those borders (it still confuses me how ANYONE can be against enforcing our own laws). In my opinion, on this current situation, as opposed to the "big picture" immigration, we need to back track on the amnesty and "tweak" the 2008 law.

Once done then somebody somewhere has to lead the conversation for comprehensive immigration reform, BUT NOT UNTIL the current situation is under control. I have no way of knowing if this is what some want...ie, pressure on folks to go one way or another by allowing this current thing to apply pressure but I sure hope not.

To those who are on here speaking of conservatives, voting blocs, etc......THIS IS WHY NO SOLUTIONS CAN BE REACHED. Your interest is not in solving the problem....your interest is in being right in your mind and insuring whatever side you are on is the "winner". Good luck with that attitude

Noone on here can really solve anything but in this country there helps to have healthy debate on subjects. That is normally how folks get educated and informed. Voting blocs ? I was shocked that someone would bring that up.....if that is the intention of the amnesty, etc, I am sickened by it.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Rags123

As expected we have the same folks now beginning the political slamming and thus sadly, another discussion will bite the dust.

This thread was NOT about politics. It was about a poster who felt the American dream of immigrating here was dead. It fostered, rightfully so, into a discussion of the current border problem.

Those who now talk of elections, voting blocs, etc are the ones that have NO...ZERO views on the subject at hand yet are now going to get into the name calling which they call discussion.

This will end this thread of course and sometimes I think these SAME folks have that as their intent.

But to close.....our borders are still welcoming in my opinion but with controls that we has the owner of those borders should set. We need to enforce current law on those borders (it still confuses me how ANYONE can be against enforcing our own laws). In my opinion, on this current situation, as opposed to the "big picture" immigration, we need to back track on the amnesty and "tweak" the 2008 law.

Once done then somebody somewhere has to lead the conversation for comprehensive immigration reform, BUT NOT UNTIL the current situation is under control. I have no way of knowing if this is what some want...ie, pressure on folks to go one way or another by allowing this current thing to apply pressure but I sure hope not.

To those who are on here speaking of conservatives, voting blocs, etc......THIS IS WHY NO SOLUTIONS CAN BE REACHED. Your interest is not in solving the problem....your interest is in being right in your mind and insuring whatever side you are on is the "winner". Good luck with that attitude

Noone on here can really solve anything but in this country there helps to have healthy debate on subjects. That is normally how folks get educated and informed. Voting blocs ? I was shocked that someone would bring that up.....if that is the intention of the amnesty, etc, I am sickened by it.

I empathize with your frustration at the lack of interest by many in enforcing the law. That would certainly solve most of the problem. I also note your comments about voting blocs, etc. Not appropriate or at least not helpful. And I agree, without genuinely secure borders, comprehensive reform is a complete non-starter.

Here's IMHO the gist of the immigration issue ... ie, my two cents:

1. Legal immigrants who can support themselves and help the country are most WELCOME!! (my dentist is Vietnamese, my doctor is from India ... the more the merrier)

2. Illegal aliens who come here with nothing to offer and need to be supported by the taxpayers are not welcome, especially if they sneak in over the border. Every country in the world as far as I know follows a policy similar to this ... because it's the only rational policy any country can follow and still remain a country.

[NoMoSno]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

I empathize with your frustration at the lack of interest by many in enforcing the law. That would certainly solve most of the problem. I also note your comments about voting blocs, etc. Not appropriate or at least not helpful. And I agree, without genuinely secure borders, comprehensive reform is a complete non-starter.

Here's IMHO the gist of the immigration issue ... ie, my two cents:

1. Legal immigrants who can support themselves and help the country are most WELCOME!! (my dentist is Vietnamese, my doctor is from India ... the more the merrier)

2. Illegal aliens who come here with nothing to offer and need to be supported by the taxpayers are not welcome, especially if they sneak in over the border. Every country in the world as far as I know follows a policy similar to this ... because it's the only rational policy any country can follow and still remain a country.

100%

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by Rags123

snipped
But to close.....our borders are still welcoming in my opinion but with controls that we has the owner of those borders should set. We need to enforce current law on those borders (it still confuses me how ANYONE can be against enforcing our own laws). In my opinion, on this current situation, as opposed to the "big picture" immigration, we need to back track on the amnesty and "tweak" the 2008 law.
snipped

Are you referencing the WILLIAM WILBERFORCE TRAFFICKING VICTIMS PROTECTION REAUTHORIZATION ACT OF 2008? The legislation that was intended to protect people from being exploited by human traffickers?

If so, I would like to know how this legislation was ever aborted to support the current influx of immigrants without papers.

Tweaking in my mind would simply be to obey it and provide protection for people in need of protection from smuggling traffickers...the purpose for which it was written!

[SheilaO]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

My ancestors had to have a sponsor. My grandfather was indentured. There is a legal way and an illegal way to become a citizen.

And our country is already in debt. There is only so much we can do financially. We can't take care of everybody. No matter if they long to be here and are good people. This isn't the way we used to do things. We are being overwhelmed with people just strolling in. That beautiful quote above was written before we had welfare. People who came here had to be able to take care of themselves immediately.

[COLOR="rgb(0, 100, 0)"] I totally agree for the reasons you have given! How many people could we take into our home if people kept knocking on the door and wanted us to care for them? Please understand, I am a Christian and believe strongly in helping your neighbor� but also believe the best way to help them is to teach them to be responsible...

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Are you referencing the WILLIAM WILBERFORCE TRAFFICKING VICTIMS PROTECTION REAUTHORIZATION ACT OF 2008? The legislation that was intended to protect people from being exploited by human traffickers?

If so, I would like to know from how this legislation was ever aborted to support the current influx of immigrants without papers.

Tweaking in my mind would simply be to obey it and provide protection for people in need of protection from smuggling traffickers...the purpose for which it was written!

Thats the law I refer to.

Problem is that just about 100% of those crossing (and this does not apply to Mexicans..only certain central Americans).....anyway almost anyone from those countries can qualify...all they need to do is proclaim they are a victim and the process which takes time..begins.

I am not a lawyer, but this law is what has been abused ever since the amnesty was given. It was/is considered the loophole to get them in this country. They are then dispersed with an attempt to match with family and given a hearing date. I do not know how to "tweak" it.....under the circumstances maybe just repeal it.

So you have these poor central Americans who saw the amnesty as a signal (nobody has yet to tell them otherwise) and use this as a loophole to get in and begin the process because we are not enforcing the laws to deport properly.

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by Rags123

Thats the law I refer to.

Problem is that just about 100% of those crossing (and this does not apply to Mexicans..only certain central Americans).....anyway almost anyone from those countries can qualify...all they need to do is proclaim they are a victim and the process which takes time..begins.

I am not a lawyer, but this law is what has been abused ever since the amnesty was given. It was/is considered the loophole to get them in this country. They are then dispersed with an attempt to match with family and given a hearing date. I do not know how to "tweak" it.....under the circumstances maybe just repeal it.

So you have these poor central Americans who saw the amnesty as a signal (nobody has yet to tell them otherwise) and use this as a loophole to get in and begin the process because we are not enforcing the laws to deport properly.

But I have not heard that any one of them declared to be a victim of human trafficking! The key word 'abuse' is apparently being used by our government rather than those crossing the border!

A read through the law is fascinating and a great revelation as to how we have been DUPED!

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

But I have not heard that any one of them declared to be a victim of human trafficking! The key word 'abuse' is apparently being used by our government rather than those crossing the border!

A read through the law is fascinating and a great revelation as to how we have been DUPED!

Well, what I have read is that they are required to show up for a hearing and that only about 10% have actually shown up, so I suppose they are roaming the streets somewhere.

And few, if any, are refused at the border when they declare this law; Just told they have to show up for a hearing, which then they do not attend.

At the risk of being political which is not my intent, I will share a note from an article and if admin finds it political, please simply delete that portion. My intent is to simply share information on a very important issue.

So...here is the quote and the link which discusses the law...

"As I listened on CSPAN radio, an infuriating Mark H. Greenberg, acting assistant secretary at HHS, finally had to admit that it was a deliberate administration policy not to ask the immigration status of parents with whom they were placing illegal immigrant children. Are you kidding me? If the President was dead serious about stopping illegal immigration, and if all departments of government were, in turn, working in consort to solve this epidemic, immigration status would be the first thing that HHS checked. No wonder illegal immigrant children don't show up for deportation hearings. Their illegal immigrant parents and guardians don't want to be busted themselves!"

Dear President Obama: Secure The Border Now Or Risk Civil War*|*James Marshall Crotty

This from the Huffington Post also spends time in layman language discussing the law itself.

I am still infuriated about a discussion of voting blocs that someone brought up earlier. What kind of a nation are we that our security, the fiber of our country takes second or third place to voting blocs ? If this is involved in anyway....well...