[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Sure around town EVs are great. But I take road trips of a thousand miles and drive it in two days. At this point in time I could not do that in an EV.

A thousand mile trip would take around 15 hours if you have a catheter and don't have to stop to pee and have side tanks so you don't have to stop for gas, and you don't exceed the average speed limit of 70 mph.

With a long rage electric, today, it would add 3 stops of 30 minutes or a grand total of 1.5 hours to your 15 hour drive, bringing it to 16.5 hours. Split over two days that comes to 8.25 hours per day in EV vs 7.5 hours per day in ICE. That is horrible, I agree.

Also, I don't know if you drive a pickup (with side tanks so you don't have to stop) or a compact car, but the comparison is:

Average costs per mile for cars in the US:

$0.04/mile for EV = $40 round trip
$0.10/mile for compact ICE = $100 round trip
$0.16/mile for pickup. = $160 round trip

And, assuming the EV is a Tesla, the charging stations are almost everywhere, so while there MAY be a slight difference in miles to ensure charging stations, depending on where you are going, the odds are against it. And with the infrastructure bill passed charging stations are going to be rapidly added everywhere else.

I will agree with you thought, EV are GREAT around town. By around town, I mean a 200 mile round trip.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I should state that I don’t hate evs, my irritation is with the brief time line declared for such a major transition for the US when the homework, grid capabilities, and flaws have not been sufficiently examined.

The financial pressure being applied to everyday citizens to convert to evs now is ridiculous when in all reality, this conversion could make the pollution problems much worse. Throw the baby out with the bath water! Why not develop a twenty year plan? Most people will have converted before that, the grid may be able to handle it and the kinks would be much fewer.

What brief time line would that be? Yours? I have said, and no one has disputed, that to replace the 300,000,000 ICE vehicles on the road and provide the infrastructure to support the TVs will take at least 30 years.

If by brief timeline you mean to get started, well, that can happen today. Or we could put it off until it is perfect - meaning forever.

And cost, everyones favorite whipping boy is Tesla, and claims of $70K, not many mention Chevy Bolt EUV around $38K. Seems to me, when you consider the cost of maintenance on an ICE the Chevy is about 1/2 the cost or less of the ICE competition.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

What brief time line would that be? Yours? I have said, and no one has disputed, that to replace the 300,000,000 ICE vehicles on the road and provide the infrastructure to support the TVs will take at least 30 years.

If by brief timeline you mean to get started, well, that can happen today. Or we could put it off until it is perfect - meaning forever.

And cost, everyones favorite whipping boy is Tesla, and claims of $70K, not many mention Chevy Bolt EUV around $38K. Seems to me, when you consider the cost of maintenance on an ICE the Chevy is about 1/2 the cost or less of the ICE competition.

I don't understand the half cost for maintenance. The only maintenance I do on my car are oil changes, brakes, and tires. Oil changes are $40, and I assume that an electric vehicle needs tires and brakes. Also, can you get a brake job on an electric vehicle at a service station, or do you need to go to the dealer, and pay a lot more?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

A thousand mile trip would take around 15 hours if you have a catheter and don't have to stop to pee and have side tanks so you don't have to stop for gas, and you don't exceed the average speed limit of 70 mph.

With a long rage electric, today, it would add 3 stops of 30 minutes or a grand total of 1.5 hours to your 15 hour drive, bringing it to 16.5 hours. Split over two days that comes to 8.25 hours per day in EV vs 7.5 hours per day in ICE. That is horrible, I agree.

Also, I don't know if you drive a pickup (with side tanks so you don't have to stop) or a compact car, but the comparison is:

Average costs per mile for cars in the US:

$0.04/mile for EV = $40 round trip
$0.10/mile for compact ICE = $100 round trip
$0.16/mile for pickup. = $160 round trip

And, assuming the EV is a Tesla, the charging stations are almost everywhere, so while there MAY be a slight difference in miles to ensure charging stations, depending on where you are going, the odds are against it. And with the infrastructure bill passed charging stations are going to be rapidly added everywhere else.

I will agree with you thought, EV are GREAT around town. By around town, I mean a 200 mile round trip.

Are you saying that it only take 30 minutes to fully charge an electric vehicle?

[Hardlyworking]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Are you saying that it only take 30 minutes to fully charge an electric vehicle?

Not 100%. At a Super Charger you can add around 200 miles in 15-20 minutes. The car will plan your recharge stops for you, route you to the charging station and precondition the batteries for you.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Are you saying that it only take 30 minutes to fully charge an electric vehicle?

I don’t believe I said fully. Are you saying you drive 1000 miles without eating or peeing? Are you saying you can actually average 70 mph for 15 hours without breaking the law?

I weighted the numbers in favor of ICE.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

What brief time line would that be? Yours? I have said, and no one has disputed, that to replace the 300,000,000 ICE vehicles on the road and provide the infrastructure to support the TVs will take at least 30 years.

If by brief timeline you mean to get started, well, that can happen today. Or we could put it off until it is perfect - meaning forever.

And cost, everyones favorite whipping boy is Tesla, and claims of $70K, not many mention Chevy Bolt EUV around $38K. Seems to me, when you consider the cost of maintenance on an ICE the Chevy is about 1/2 the cost or less of the ICE competition.

There isn’t a “start” today, there is a vicious push. It’s not so much a problem of the elderly with fat pockets. The high cost and lack of fuel is cutting the backs of the lower to middle income people/families in a phony race to lower pollution as the fat cats jet around the world.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

You argument is exactly the issue with America today If something can't fix every thing it isn't work doing.

Solar DOES compete with fossil fuel in most of the world, just not here, it is replacing and augmenting electricity generation is many areas of the world, and is over 25% of electrical generation in some countries.

It is NO philosophy, it is fact.

300,000,000 automobiles compared to 2,000 fighter jets. And you say solar can't compete before it can't provide 2,000 jets.

Right.

And two thousands jets, which were used as an example, are the only other vehicles polluting the earth other than cars. Head in the sand syndrome…

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Then do it in your Gas car, or fly.
No one is forcing anyone to go EV.
No one is stopping ICE for a long time.

Americans are being forced to ev by the manipulation of supply and cost of gasoline. You must have missed that.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Love2Swim

For YEARS forward thinking politicians have been trying to incorporate green energy into our energy plan as a nation. Back in 2007 Al Gore was calling on the US to produce all its energy from zero-carbon sources within 10 years, and look where that got us. The last President dismantled nearly 100 policies focused on clean air, water, wildlife and toxic chemicals.

Oh, yeah, Al Gore

[Byte1]

I doubt I will live long enough to see an " e'lectric car" become a viable option to the point where I will be purchasing one. My car already gets as good mileage as a hybrid. Don't see as how the hybrid is worth it yet, considering that the only time the battery power works for them is when they are cruising the Villages. And even then, you need to take it out on the road to charge up the battery pack once in a while, my understanding of how it works. Maybe I am wrong, but I have no plan to invest in something that gives me the same service I currently get at a cheaper price. I bet arguments go both ways, but I still enjoy burning fossil fuel, and I am progressive enough to change to synthetic lube.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I don't understand the half cost for maintenance. The only maintenance I do on my car are oil changes, brakes, and tires. Oil changes are $40, and I assume that an electric vehicle needs tires and brakes. Also, can you get a brake job on an electric vehicle at a service station, or do you need to go to the dealer, and pay a lot more?

So, you are not typical. Scheduled maintenance required to maintain your cars warranty includes more than your "oil change".

Brakes on TVs wear very slowly because of regeneration braking. At one point Tesla was considering a life time warranty on brakes, since they wear so slowly.

Try googling total cost of ownership of cars ev vs ICE. It will explain why TVs are actually less expensive to own even if they cost more up front.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Aces4

There isn’t a “start” today, there is a vicious push. It’s not so much a problem of the elderly with fat pockets. The high cost and lack of fuel is cutting the backs of the lower to middle income people/families in a phony race to lower pollution as the fat cats jet around the world.

Please define vicious push? There are incentives, there is NOTHING penalizing you for buying ICE.

Please correct me. Vicious - LOL! I rank this as the funniest comment in this thread.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Americans are being forced to ev by the manipulation of supply and cost of gasoline. You must have missed that.

Proof please, conspiracies are wonderful, since they require no proof, just belief.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Aces4

And two thousands jets, which were used as an example, are the only other vehicles polluting the earth other than cars. Head in the sand syndrome…

My head is not in the sand, you are the one mentioning Jets, not me.

OTR Trucks are going electric (and full self driving) Container ships are going wind and solar, cars are obviously going EV with every major automanfactuer annoying that (I guess they all are in on the conspiracy). Trains in most of the world are and having been electric. On and on, and the example you want to argue over are a very specialized application of fighter jets.

If you actually did some reading, you would find commercial passenger jets are a serious problem, and we don't have an alternative on that yet.

So, I guess, you are right, we should do NOTHING until we can solve EVERYTHING.

jeez.