[zcaveman]

Originally Posted by nonseniorresident

As a start...

1) Carry food, silverware, and/or linen on trays, or use carts to carry trays.

2) Place food servings on plates and trays according to orders or instructions.

3) Prepare food items such as sandwiches, salads, soups, and beverages.

4) Examine trays to ensure that they contain required items.

5) Load trays with accessories such as eating utensils, napkins, and condiments.

6) Monitor food distribution, ensuring that meals are delivered to the correct recipients and that guidelines such as those for special diets are followed.

7) Remove trays and stack dishes for return to kitchen after meals are finished.

8) Stock service stations with items such as ice, napkins, and straws.

9) Take food orders and relay orders to kitchens or serving counters so they can be filled.

10) Clean and sterilize dishes, kitchen utensils, equipment, and facilities.

11) Determine where patients or patrons would like to eat their meals and help them get situated.

12) Monitor food preparation and serving techniques to ensure that proper procedures are followed.

13) Record amounts and types of special food items served to customers.

14) Total checks, present them to customers, and accept payment for services.

Even though a super-advanced robot could do some of those tasks, the main component of any hospitality establishment is the intangible product of quality service. That's where the tip comes in is how efficient the above tasks were performed, as well as how "at home" and welcomed you were treated. Serving is an artform which viewed as such requires passion and drive along with hard work. That is one-of-a-kind.

I am pretty sure what you described was in their job descrption when they hired on.

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by nonseniorresident

The difference sir, is that a one is fast food, one is a full-service dining establishment. They do not have "cashiers" they have Servers that are paid 1/2 (or less) of what these "cashiers" get paid because they work for tips. If you disagree with that and don't want to tip 10% for a Server to put together your order and deliver it in a fast, efficient, and convenient manner, then have the decency to order takeout from a takeout place like chinese or pizza.

First, I am a WOMAN. Secondly, It doesn't matter what hourly wage they are paid if the amount of PHYSICAL LABOR is THE SAME OR EVEN LESS than a fast food cashier does, understand? The customer is getting the same service, WHY should they tip one and not the other based on what an employer wants to pay? That doesn't concern the customer or have *ANYTHING* to do with the customer, PERIOD. The service doesn't change.

Chinese I have seen the *CASHIER* put my chinese food in the box, not someone else. I have even seen the pizza hut to-go order taker actually put together my food and put it in the oven even. I don't get WHY you think the place means more tipping when it should be the amount of physical LABOR that has to do with tipping, because tipping is for *SERVICE*, not for the restaurant or if one employer pays more than another.

Tipping should be EQUAL EQUAL in that you can't tip one, you shouldn't tip the other if the *SERVICE* is the SAME OR EVEN LESS work than the cashier does at a fast food restaurant for counter service. That's the *FAIR* way of tipping. YOU ARE AN UNFAIR TIPPER, WHY?

[nonseniorresident]

Originally Posted by Springs1

First, I am a WOMAN. Secondly, It doesn't matter what hourly wage they are paid if the amount of PHYSICAL LABOR is THE SAME OR EVEN LESS than a fast food cashier does, understand? The customer is getting the same service, WHY should they tip one and not the other based on what an employer wants to pay? That doesn't concern the customer or have *ANYTHING* to do with the customer, PERIOD. The service doesn't change.

Chinese I have seen the *CASHIER* put my chinese food in the box, not someone else. I have even seen the pizza hut to-go order taker actually put together my food and put it in the oven even. I don't get WHY you think the place means more tipping when it should be the amount of physical LABOR that has to do with tipping, because tipping is for *SERVICE*, not for the restaurant or if one employer pays more than another.

Lol, sorry for my assumption. I get your out-dated logic, trust me. My opinion is simply that it is flawed because you do not see the difference in a takeout restaurant and a full-service dine-in restaurant. Just because you treat a full-service dine-in restaurant like it is Burger King, doesn't mean you get to stiff the Server. If you want to, that's the beauty of this free country, but I believe in what goes around comes around.

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by nonseniorresident

Lol, sorry for my assumption. I get your out-dated logic, trust me. My opinion is simply that it is flawed because you do not see the difference in a takeout restaurant and a full-service dine-in restaurant. Just because you treat a full-service dine-in restaurant like it is Burger King, doesn't mean you get to stiff the Server. If you want to, that's the beauty of this free country, but I believe in what goes around comes around.

But it's *UNFAIR* to tip one and not the other. WHY ARE YOU TIPPING IN AN UNFAIR MANNER, HUH?

It has NOTHING to do with out of date logic. It has to do with how things REALLY ARE.

You should get to stiff the server, because at Burger King you stiff the cashier for your to-go order, same thing, no difference. That's *FAIR* to stiff since you are doing that for the cashier at Burger King.

I would gladly tip both if we were allowed to tip both as long as my service would be good, but since we can't, I won't be an UNFAIR TIPPER! What wages they make per hour means NOTHING to the service that you are receiving.

[nonseniorresident]

Originally Posted by Springs1

But it's *UNFAIR* to tip one and not the other. WHY ARE YOU TIPPING IN AN UNFAIR MANNER, HUH?

It has NOTHING to do with out of date logic. It has to do with how things REALLY ARE.

You should get to stiff the server, because at Burger King you stiff the cashier for your to-go order, same thing, no difference. That's *FAIR* to stiff since you are doing that for the cashier at Burger King.

I would gladly tip both if we were allowed to tip both as long as my service would be good, but since we can't, I won't be an UNFAIR TIPPER! What wages they make per hour means NOTHING to the service that you are receiving.

I'm not saying it's the patron's responsibility to make up for the lower wage of a Server. I am saying they work for tips, that is the agreement. You want to skip the full-service part so you can enjoy the food and the convenience and the Server has to suffer? They don't HAVE to let you order take-out. It is an added service and convenience to do so. When you order food from them and take it home, they still at the end of the night have to PAY a portion of their sales to the busser/bartender/hostess AND pay taxes on that. Cashiers don't because they aren't setup for that. It's an added bonus and a privilege for a full-service dining restaurant to let you take their time and resources away from their dine-in guests and they should have to pay for that?

Sure, your logic is Servers are doing the same work as the cashier at Burger King (which you are still wrong - they do much more besides the fact that you are taking them away from their 1st priority - dine-in guests) but your opinion of how much work they do doesn't matter when considering that their purpose of operations is NOT for takeout.

So when I go to the Barber and get a $12 haircut and leave $3...by your logic, if I go to a salon and and pay $40 that a $3 tip is adequate? Get outta here.

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by nonseniorresident

I'm not saying it's the patron's responsibility to make up for the lower wage of a Server. I am saying they work for tips, that is the agreement. You want to skip the full-service part so you can enjoy the food and the convenience and the Server has to suffer? They don't HAVE to let you order take-out. It is an added service and convenience to do so. When you order food from them and take it home, they still at the end of the night have to PAY a portion of their sales to the busser/bartender/hostess AND pay taxes on that. Cashiers don't because they aren't setup for that. It's an added bonus and a privilege for a full-service dining restaurant to let you take their time and resources away from their dine-in guests and they should have to pay for that?

Sure, your logic is Servers are doing the same work as the cashier at Burger King (which you are still wrong - they do much more besides the fact that you are taking them away from their 1st priority - dine-in guests) but your opinion of how much work they do doesn't matter when considering that their purpose of operations is NOT for takeout.

Name somethings then? I don't know ANYMORE they do?

The "THEY" you are talking about is the OWNERS and that has *NOTHING* to do with the service that they let us get take-out. That concept has ZERO to do with the person serving me. WHERE do you get that it does?

If they work for tips, they know they are *RISKING NOT RECEIVING ANY, that it is a *GAMBLE* when you work for tips, DUH!!

That doesn't mean the customer has to pay them anything. We aren't LEGALLY LIABLE to do so.

Cashiers are at Subway, Quizno's, and Starbuck's, all places I do not tip, but accept tips. McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, KFC, and Taco Bell don't have their cashiers accept tips.

What does what they have to tip out have to do with the service either? If you know this and STILL STAY AT THE JOB ANYWAY, that's YOUR ISSUE, NOT OURS. WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH TIPPING OUT OTHER CO-WORKERS. That's your issue as an employee. The service we are receiving doesn't magically change because you have to tip out.

The dine-in guest shouldn't be first priority, they should be ********EQUAL******* PRIORITY! The tip or no tip shouldn't equal priority. I NEVER did that when I served at the donut shop/diner I worked for around 10yrs ago. I treated my drive-thru just as well as my dine-in guest that did tip me. I wasn't unfair and SELFISH like you seem to be.

You are saying the server has to suffer, well if they don't like the job, DON'T STAY!! There's the door.

[Villageshooter]

I am NOT here to cast judgment on others and the tipping of others,,, just when i tip,,it makes me feel good,, to make me feel good you better do more than just bag my food or come to the table and take my order and bring it from the kitchen... that is your J-O-B.... now if you keep my water glass full, bring me hot sauce from the bar, as you dont have any but they have some for bloody mary's , or you do something extra, YOU GET SOMETHING extra. and THAT tip makes me feel good.. and yes i will ask for you the next time i come in... if you dont care ,, why should I.... You be nice to me,, I will be nice to you... ANY tip is not automatic,,, it is my money,, not governments,, now that is automatic $$$. You might think I am wrong in my thinking,, but i was never given anything in life,,, I worked very hard for it.... Many folks seemed to think.....they have an entitlement! NOT! I am not going to change the world,,, but I am not enabler of accommodating the leaches of the world!

[BBQMan]

Originally Posted by nonseniorresident

I'm not saying it's the patron's responsibility to make up for the lower wage of a Server. I am saying they work for tips, that is the agreement. You want to skip the full-service part so you can enjoy the food and the convenience and the Server has to suffer? They don't HAVE to let you order take-out. It is an added service and convenience to do so. When you order food from them and take it home, they still at the end of the night have to PAY a portion of their sales to the busser/bartender/hostess AND pay taxes on that. Cashiers don't because they aren't setup for that. It's an added bonus and a privilege for a full-service dining restaurant to let you take their time and resources away from their dine-in guests and they should have to pay for that?

Sure, your logic is Servers are doing the same work as the cashier at Burger King (which you are still wrong - they do much more besides the fact that you are taking them away from their 1st priority - dine-in guests) but your opinion of how much work they do doesn't matter when considering that their purpose of operations is NOT for takeout.

So when I go to the Barber and get a $12 haircut and leave $3...by your logic, if I go to a salon and and pay $40 that a $3 tip is adequate? Get outta here.

NSR, I'm giving up on this thread. Feel that I am banging my head against the wall trying to make these people understand the difference between a fast food and a restaurant. My belief is that they do not want to understand. They are the reason Villagers have the reputation of being stingy and greedy with the folks who live outside the 'bubble'.

[nonseniorresident]

Originally Posted by Springs1

Name somethings then? I don't know ANYMORE they do?

The "THEY" you are talking about is the OWNERS and that has *NOTHING* to do with the service that they let us get take-out. That concept has ZERO to do with the person serving me. WHERE do you get that it does?

If they work for tips, they know they are *RISKING NOT RECEIVING ANY, that it is a *GAMBLE* when you work for tips, DUH!!

That doesn't mean the customer has to pay them anything. We aren't LEGALLY LIABLE to do so.

Cashiers are at Subway, Quizno's, and Starbuck's, all places I do not tip, but accept tips. McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, KFC, and Taco Bell don't have their cashiers accept tips.

What does what they have to tip out have to do with the service either? If you know this and STILL STAY AT THE JOB ANYWAY, that's YOUR ISSUE, NOT OURS. WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH TIPPING OUT OTHER CO-WORKERS. That's your issue as an employee. The service we are receiving doesn't magically change because you have to tip out.

The dine-in guest shouldn't be first priority, they should be ********EQUAL******* PRIORITY! The tip or no tip shouldn't equal priority. I NEVER did that when I served at the donut shop/diner I worked for around 10yrs ago. I treated my drive-thru just as well as my dine-in guest that did tip me. I wasn't unfair and SELFISH like you seem to be.

You are saying the server has to suffer, well if they don't like the job, DON'T STAY!! There's the door.

A full-service sit-down restaurant is part quality food prepared with much more effort than a fast food burger wrapped up and thrown into a bag, but mostly the EXPERIENCE. You are right Servers do take a gamble/risk working for tips but 80% of people have common sense/decency and Servers most of the time have a passion for caring for that 80% and still decide to stick with their job despite the 20%. If everyone thought like you and the rest of the 20% that it's you aren't LEGALLY LIABLE to tip than the profession and industry of Hospitality all-together would not exist. My whole point isn't about the LAW it's about ETHICS and common sense.

Sorry but the dine-in guest at a full-service DINE-IN restaurant is ALWAYS the priority. Did I say because of TIPS? NO not once. They are the priority because if not, a restaurant would just be a kitchen. A full-service dine-in restaurant is about the EXPERIENCE. You say "I treated my drive-thru just as well as my dine-in guest that did tip me" but I'm not talking about DONUT SHOPS or anything with DRIVE-THRU's. I and once again, talking about full-service dine-in restaurants.

You also assume I am a Server which I never said I was. And I am not selfish by any-means you are hearing what you want to hear which is why I feel the need to repeat myself so many times. In my opinion treating a Server at a full-service dine-in restaurant like a drive-thru is selfish.

You say "You are saying the server has to suffer, well if they don't like the job, DON'T STAY!! There's the door." Well you know why most don't quit? Because most patrons are courteous, and make it worth while. They aren't going to quit because of the 20% like you (although they often consider it). It takes passion to treat the job like an artform of truly caring for individuals, along with very hard work among a list of other skills way beyond throwing fries and a burger in a bag and handing it through a window.

[nonseniorresident]

Originally Posted by BBQMan

NSR, I'm giving up on this thread. Feel that I am banging my head against the wall trying to make these people understand the difference between a fast food and a restaurant. My belief is that they do not want to understand. They are the reason Villagers have the reputation of being stingy and greedy with the folks who live outside the 'bubble'.

Thank you and I agree fully. I love to debate and usually discussions end with an agreement of sorts and both parties learning a bit. Stubborn people are set in their ways and there's nothing anyone can do. I'm just glad most think like us and regardless of whether or not I changed her opinion, I put mine out there for everyone else to consider.

[natickdan]

It's 10% for me because I can and, more importantly, I recognize that many of those workers are making close to minimum wage. There are many who are not financially able to tip for take-out and there are some who can. For the latter, it's a personal decision.

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by nonseniorresident

A full-service sit-down restaurant is part quality food prepared with much more effort than a fast food burger wrapped up and thrown into a bag, but mostly the EXPERIENCE.

You haven't named *ONE* THING that servers do more, NOT ONE!! As I said before, a Wendy's CASHIER put together my burger LITERALLY, NOT just thrown it in a bag along with putting mayo in a cup and mustard in a cup for me. She also filled my dr. pepper.(this wasn't at a mall, but malls do NOT have self-serve soda stations, even if most Wendy's now have the self-serve, NOT ALL DO). What she did, I watched her put the burger patty on the bun, cheese, lettuce, and onions. I *WATCHED* HER DO THIS HERSELF, NOT THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK, *HER* THE CASHIER THAT TOOK MY ORDER FOR NO TIP!! She did NOT JUST THROW IT IN A BAG!

You are right Servers do take a gamble/risk working for tips but 80% of people have common sense/decency

Common decency is to tip *FAIRLY* by if you tip one, you tip the other, since you can't tip one, you shouldn't tip the other.

If everyone thought like you and the rest of the 20% that it's you aren't LEGALLY LIABLE to tip than the profession and industry of Hospitality all-together would not exist.

For DINE-IN GUESTS, YES IT WOULD. Most people don't tip for take-out in general, so YES IT WOULD because of the DINE-IN GUESTS.

My whole point isn't about the LAW it's about ETHICS and common sense.

But common sense is that there's no more work they doing than what the cashier at Wendy's did for me for that to-go order.

Sorry but the dine-in guest at a full-service DINE-IN restaurant is ALWAYS the priority. They are the priority because if not, a restaurant would just be a kitchen. A full-service dine-in restaurant is about the EXPERIENCE.

What does this have to do with TURNS and being *FAIR*, huh? NOTHING!! Go in the order in which requests came in is how it should be.

You say "I treated my drive-thru just as well as my dine-in guest that did tip me" but I'm not talking about DONUT SHOPS or anything with DRIVE-THRU's. I and once again, talking about full-service dine-in restaurants.

I don't understand why the quality of the restaurant has *A THING* to do with tipping for service, huh? This is what I don't get, because the *AMOUNT OF WORK* is THE SAME OR EVEN LESS than what fast food cashiers do.

So far, you haven't name ONE THING as I asked you to do, NOT ONE. That's because obviously you cannot come up with anything, can you? Well, I am waiting.....

You also assume I am a Server which I never said I was.

No, I didn't think you were.

In my opinion treating a Server at a full-service dine-in restaurant like a drive-thru is selfish.

WHY and HOW when it's 100% *FAIR* since the *******AMOUNT OF PHYSICAL LABOR IS THE SAME OR EVEN LESS than the drive-thru person does. Do you think it took me any less time to put together an order just because the person took it from a window instead of in person? OF COURSE NOT! That's just common sense. Obviously, you aren't thinking with common sense here.

Because most patrons are courteous, and make it worth while.

Then obviously they don't need my money, so that's no problem there.

They aren't going to quit because of the 20% like you (although they often consider it). It takes passion to treat the job like an artform of truly caring for individuals, along with very hard work among a list of other skills way

Then why should we tip them if they don't need our money, huh? Also, I never said it wasn't hard work. I said it was FAST FOOD CASHIER COUNTER SERVICE WORK.

NAME SOMETHING MORE THAT THEY DO THAN FAST FOOD CASHIERS. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY, BECAUSE I CANNOT COME UP WITH ANYTHING!!

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by nonseniorresident

Thank you and I agree fully. I love to debate and usually discussions end with an agreement of sorts and both parties learning a bit. Stubborn people are set in their ways and there's nothing anyone can do. I'm just glad most think like us and regardless of whether or not I changed her opinion, I put mine out there for everyone else to consider.

But if you aren't getting more service, WHY should you tip, because it's not more than the fast food cashier does?

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Springs1

But if you aren't getting more service, WHY should you tip, because it's not more than the fast food cashier does?

I'm not sure If I understand the "back and forth" correctly ...

It appears to me that NSR feels that Servers who work on the Take-out Counter in a dine-in restaurant are more deserving of tips than Servers who do an identical job in a fast-food restaurant. The Servers may do identical chores, but the environment is different. Perhaps because the expectation level is different? Or perhaps I've completely missed the point.

[HMLRHT1]

Perhaps